Firefox lost 50M users since 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#181

Post by foepys » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #161

mfer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t just look at power users. Google and Microsoft, for example, constantly advertise to use their browser when you visit their properties. I imagine this has an impact.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

How could Mozilla ever compete in technical merit nowadays?

Google is siphoning nearly all talent by paying them insanely huge amounts of money. Web is part of Google's core business and they will pour every little penny into it if it means they can be one step ahead and force others to follow them. How can Mozilla, a non-profit, compete with that? Even freaking Microsoft gave up!

I'm insanely impressed with Mozilla that they can still keep up that well.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#182

Post by devwastaken » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

Chromium - chrome, edge, brave, V8, V8 isolates, node.js, electron, etc.

Firefox - Firefox, Torbrowser, spidermonkey.

Chromium project became the cpython of JavaScript and web browsers, because you could package it's components and embed them in your own applications. Firefox does not have competitive equivalents or better features. Therefore it loses users.

This was a big topic years ago when FF started removing XUL and any ability to extend the browser. You need a reason for people to use your tech, not just your product.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#183

Post by williamdclt » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

whatever_dude wrote: post #104

nuker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Safari is usable on less than 20% of machines, it absolutely will not be stopping anything You forgot mobile, iOS users are big chunk of it and websites want to work on iOS browsers.

The US is not the world.

iOS users are still a big chunk of it in Europe and Asia. 20% is a big chunk, and we do indeed often want websites want to work on iOS browsers.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#184

Post by mfer » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

natch wrote: post #151

mfer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where things get complicated. What’s the difference between dislike and disagree with? Ginsberg and Scalia were Supreme Court justice’s know for this. Disagreeing with something, even fundamental, doesn’t mean people need to dislike each other. Imagine, for a moment, this idea was placed on religious belief. Should people working for someone with a different religious affiliation assume their boss dislikes th…

Actions are even more important than disagreements or dislikes. You can disagree with someone who believes in slavery, and you are free to still like them if you want, sure. But if it was me in your place, even if I liked that person, I still would not want to work for them based on their actions. And I think this is a fair position for anyone to take. Or if you are saying it is conceivably possible that Brendan* lik…

Let’s flip this around. Around the world there are many people who have belief systems disagree with homosexuality. Right or wrong, this is presently the case. If some have money in support of the other direction on prop 8 should they have tried to get the person fired or left themselves?

A core thing at issue here is right and wrong and lifestyles. No matter what I think, there are people who disagree on this. I’ve been hard pressed to get folks to share a logical reasoned case for their take. It’s very much about belief and assumptions.

Is it time we divide up based on some issues like this or try to destroy “the other side”? It should like that’s what’s being said.

Please note, my take on this here is how we as a society deal with these disagreements.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#185

Post by foepys » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

acd wrote: post #177

I suggest Firefox implements a premium paid variant without taking away any features from the free version. This is to increase revenue for development.

Chrome is free to download. I click a link and get Chrome, done.

Why should I go through the hassle to register, give out my CC info, and pay?

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#186

Post by jarcane » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

kunagi7 wrote: post #160

csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

If you want to customize your browser (as far as using your own CSS) you can try Vivaldi. I've been using it for years and after the 3.7 update it feels fast and snappy (at least on my computer). It has tons of custom settings around tabs, commands, windows, toolbars, etc. At least on Linux it gets out of my way quite nicely. Things like easily accessible Profiles help me quite a lot with my workflow. If you're reall…

If there were someway to sync Vivaldi with an iOS browser, I'd have already switched. I've really been quite impressed with it, and it seems better every time I check, but I get a lot of use about the cross-device features of Firefox/Chrome, and while that's possible on Android, Vivaldi still don't have an iOS version.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#187

Post by abcd_f » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

tehbeard wrote: post #150

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you perhaps not using an adblocker and thereby being trapped into wrongly believing that the slowness induced by ad+tracking Javascripts is the fault of Firefox?

Let me give you another datapoint. My old uni laptop, an Intel T4400 with 4gb RAM. Both chrome and Firefox have adblock. Never ran in to a problem with Chrome, despite the wider internet calling it a memory hog. Firefox struggled after 4/5 tabs, couldn't even playback video on YouTube or Vimeo reliably.. Don't run into these issues on desktop, and the Android version seems somewhat competent. But I've lost a lot of t…

For what it’s worth and based on a non-trivial sample set this is highly atypical.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#188

Post by LinuxBender » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

I have a theory why people have dissenting views on the performance of Firefox. I have a laptop dedicated to doing business online. Firefox has no addons on that machine. Some websites are painfully slow and my laptop fans kick on. I have debugged these issues and in every case it was javascript bogging down the CPU's, all 8 cores! gaming laptop I am not a web developer, so it is perhaps unfair for me to pick on the quality of the javascript.

Disable javascript and well... the site isn't usable any more for business transactions, but the slowness and CPU load vanishes. The website becomes snappy, highly responsive and easy to browse. The fans spin down and memory usage goes way down.

I've never used Chrome. Does chrome not ever get bogged down by javascript? Do they have a different javascript library/engine? I assume they must. Can you change the javascript libraries used by Firefox and Chrome? Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#189

Post by Hayarotle » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

At least we can override UI redesign changes with userChrome.css and userContent.css. I'm sticking with Firefox as long as its problems have workarounds, because the only options left are Chromium and Safari (or forks like Librewolf), and I find its pros still outweigh its cons.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#190

Post by truth_ » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

thesimp wrote: post #98

And that is the price they pay for trying to be Chrome clone UI wise and not listening to to the "power users". I hate to use the words "power user" but it is the small group of very active and enthusiastic users that you need to give the appears to every one else that they are missing out on something cool. I still use Firefox because it works reasonably for my usage but I stopped promoting it to other people around…

I had to shift all my work and research related stuff to Chrome, and I do everything else in Firefox.

After buying my new laptop five years ago, I decided that I would do the opposite. But could not keep at it. Before that, I used Firefox 100% of the times and now I use it, say, 10-15% of my browser usage time.