Well we were billed 200,000$ for a perfectly standard C section with 4 days of recovery and no NICU. So 250,000$ seems cheap!
The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
171–180 of 294 posts
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors (while in pain or having other symptoms that lower quality of life significantly). If you think an American universal health system will be somehow better than that then I suspect you're a lot more optimistic about the US government than most people. edit: I do love echo chambers, someone asks a ques…
> I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors... The wait time for an American at the poverty line seeking care for an expensive but non-emergency chronic condition can be effectively infinite . My wife receives treatment for chronic pain. Getting treatment at a pain clinic started required five visits (including being able to physically get t…
partially fault of stringent regulation on pain medication because often it is consisting of controlled substance. bad penalties if doctor is not careful enough about giving to anybody.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question was why people don't like universal health care and not an objective measurement of its value to society as a while. Around 10% of the US population is uninsured so 90% does have insurance. So 90% of the population isn't comparing it to a system with no-insurance.
But it is ethical to keep the lines shorter by excluding the poor?
No but that wasn't the question the OP asked. Unless you've got a nation of saints the majority of people will make somewhat selfish decisions.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much do you think gets taken out of your paycheck before you get it in country's with universal healthcare? And that happens even if you don't use it. And who the hell has an 8k deductible? This choice isn't 8k deductible or "free" healthcare. That's a farce.
> How much do you think gets taken out of your paycheck before you get it in country's with universal healthcare? Less. https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm has a chart of all OECD healthcare spending, both public and private. The US clearly stands out at the end. Employer-provided healthcare "gets taken out of your paycheck" all the same, just less visibly. This is a significant part of the political…
You realize they choose the bronze plan so they can pay less right? They're not forced into having an 8k deductible. They do this so they can have less taken out of pocket and only really use the healthcare in a major emergency. This would support the idea that people prefer the US system and not universal healthcare.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#175In 2011 I had major surgery. The hospital first billed the insurance company for $100,000. The insurance company then paid $20,000. Of course, the insurance rate was negotiated in advance. There was no reason to bill for 5x the negotiated rate. IMO: We need to start fining hospitals for billing errors like this.
I'm sure they play tons of games so it's not considered an error.
That said, the government needs to step in and set prices for health care. The free market has failed, in this case. Nobody can afford to shop around for a cheaper health care provider in an emergency, and even then there's no real competition.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably because it’s not a real bill? These numbers bear no relation to money and nobody cares about them. The actual bill will be sent to insurance company, it will be 25-35% of this number, which is realistic given the cost of ultra modern equipment and high salaries for doctors. You will pay up to your maximum out of pocket, which is the real number you look at when shopping for a plan. Insurance for people who k…
Do you happen to know how one would be billed for this if they didn't have insurance?
I have friends that came over from Europe for hospital stay - they got the bill, sent their objection and the hospital reduced to the usual 35%.
If you live in the US you always can buy insurance that will cap your max out of pocket to about $8k pre tax a year. Also if you’re employer doesn’t provide insurance - you’re probably in an “entry level job” that is not meant for long term employment, but rather quick money for young adults, who are still on their parents insurance (up to 27yo)
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Israel we have public healthcare. I was born at week 32 and spent about 6 weeks in the NICU - everything was free. It's not always great and I do pay for private insurance in case I need something urgent - but everything emergency is absolutely covered. I believe it's this state in most developed places that are not the US?
Everything was not free, you just didn't pay directly for it while you were at the hospital. I don't understand why the word free always gets thrown around for country's with socialized medicine. You are paying for it.
In addition to the other replies to you: almost nobody pays $960k in taxes, but they still get this benefit.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine if any other market operated like this. You walk into BestBuy and the price of a TV is $50,000. But if you take it to the cashier you will be charged some lesser amount based on what your credit card company negotiated with BestBuy. Madness.
This kind of actually does describe buying a car in the US. It is generally not permitted to buy directly from the manufacturer, so you need to go through a dealer. It is kind of messed up presently, but in normal times there isn't really a "vehicle shortage" or whatever it is getting called now. The advertised price can be completely disconnected from the actual price you pay.
There are problems with car buying but I'd argue they are different problems.
At least when you go to a dealership they'll give you a firm price before you sign the paperwork. The biggest issue I have with health care is that this isn't the case.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How much do you think gets taken out of your paycheck before you get it in country's with universal healthcare? Less. https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm has a chart of all OECD healthcare spending, both public and private. The US clearly stands out at the end. Employer-provided healthcare "gets taken out of your paycheck" all the same, just less visibly. This is a significant part of the political…
You realize they choose the bronze plan so they can pay less right? They're not forced into having an 8k deductible. They do this so they can have less taken out of pocket and only really use the healthcare in a major emergency. This would support the idea that people prefer the US system and not universal healthcare.
They choose the Bronze plan because it's literally all they can afford.
My family's ACA Platinum plan costs me $2,200/month this year, and there's still $4k of copays a year to meet.
Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU
#180For those unfamiliar with the weirdness of the US insurance system: Nobody pays the prices on these bills. This is a pre-insurance bill with inflated values: > Why am I sharing one of her (pre-insurance) bills? Insurance companies have negotiated maximum allowed prices for every line item on this bill. Different insurance companies will have different negotiated rates. The insurance companies will pay either the mini…
Imagine if any other market operated like this. You walk into BestBuy and the price of a TV is $50,000. But if you take it to the cashier you will be charged some lesser amount based on what your credit card company negotiated with BestBuy. Madness.
Actually the situation is a bit worse than that. It'd be like if you bought the $50k TV and you only knew what your price was once it showed up on your cc statement.
Also the purchase is non-refundable...