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The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

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Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#151

Post by dbspin »

CountDrewku wrote: post #127
inglor wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Israel we have public healthcare. I was born at week 32 and spent about 6 weeks in the NICU - everything was free. It's not always great and I do pay for private insurance in case I need something urgent - but everything emergency is absolutely covered. I believe it's this state in most developed places that are not the US?

Everything was not free, you just didn't pay directly for it while you were at the hospital. I don't understand why the word free always gets thrown around for country's with socialized medicine. You are paying for it.

Because mental funds are non-fungible. Amortising health costs through progressive income tax helps a) keep overall costs down, as the state centrally organises the health system / collectively negotiates with providers and b) is more fair. It doesn't feel like you're being utterly screwed through no fault of your own - e.g.: medical bill after an accident or violent attack. Instead society at large acknowledges two things a) we all need medical care and b) our need is largely disconnected from our capacity to pay.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#152

Post by Dumblydorr »

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

The simplest answer: the Senate overweights rural voters, who in turn hate government spending and big government. Until the Senate is representative of the US population, we will never have sweeping programs like this. Even if the Senate is fixed, the supreme court could likely strike down any legislation that's too progressive, since it's now 6-3 conservative lean due to the Senate and McConnells robbery of the Garland spot. It's a messed up system, sigh.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#153

Post by Jcowell »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #64
wang_li wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has universal care, it passed in 2009 and it establishes that everyone does their part and buy insurance. It establishes help for low income individuals. There are caps on annual expenses. You may not like how it’s structured. You may not like the amount that people are expected to pay. But twelve years later the only people who don’t have coverage are people who are not meeting their civic obligations. And I’…

The worst tactical move the "left" has ever done in the US is allow itself to be tied ideologically to the ACA. To my outsider's view this is nothing but an entrenchment of the 'feudal' nature of the US health care system, and a direct subsidy to private insurance companies (even if obligations were forced on them). From a pragmatic POV I see why it was put in place, but frankly it's just awful.

If the Health Care system HAS to be a feudal system I would much rather be tied to the government than a job that can fire me at any time for any reason or one I have to stick to if anything serious happens.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#154

Post by simonh »

xienze wrote: post #56
_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

> I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. I’m in tech. Combined HHI is something in the $200s. I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. So in a worst case scenario, let’s say healthcare costs me $9K per year. That’s what, 4% of my HHI? Will a universa…

You also pay for Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, health care exchange subsidies and lots more through your general taxes. This comes to $1.5 Trillion in Federal health care spending per year, or 8% of GDP funded by your taxes.

It turns out 8% of GDP is almost exactly what the UK spends on health care in total, including public and private spending. So your taxes to the federal government are paying about the same proportionately that we are for health care here in the UK, and you are also paying thousands of dollars a year for private health care on top. There's no way to spin this, you are getting utterly and completely shafted.

As it happens I also get private health care through my employer in the UK, but it only costs me £380 per year because the vast majority of my health care needs are met by the NHS promptly and to an excellent standard. The private top-up care only matters in truly exceptional situations, and even then it's mainly about comfort and maybe bypassing a queue for non-urgent care. Bearing in mind all the care I and my family have received over the years, and the zero stress I have ever had about affording it, I pay my taxes to the NHS with a happy heart.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#155

Post by CountDrewku »

avianlyric wrote: post #54
yerwhat01010 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care This absolutely does happen in the UK, although I'd pick our health over the US's any day of the week.

It's also worth mentioning that private health care and insurance both exist in the UK. Individuals still get the choice to go to any private doctor they want, they'll just have to pay for it themselves. Just like the US, except the NHS provides an excellent safety net for everyone without private insurance or the means to pay for private care.

The US has safety nets as well, they're just not as generous as the UK's.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#156

Post by iamadog1029 »

whocares2345 wrote: post #105
tomaszs wrote: post #47

This is the single reason why I could not live in the US. Each time I'd receive such bill, even when insured, I'd have a heart attack. How can people in the US think about anything else? It is so daunting and depressing from my point of view.

Probably because it’s not a real bill? These numbers bear no relation to money and nobody cares about them. The actual bill will be sent to insurance company, it will be 25-35% of this number, which is realistic given the cost of ultra modern equipment and high salaries for doctors. You will pay up to your maximum out of pocket, which is the real number you look at when shopping for a plan. Insurance for people who k…

Do you happen to know how one would be billed for this if they didn't have insurance?

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#157

Post by ceejayoz »

CountDrewku wrote: post #143
_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

How much do you think gets taken out of your paycheck before you get it in country's with universal healthcare? And that happens even if you don't use it. And who the hell has an 8k deductible? This choice isn't 8k deductible or "free" healthcare. That's a farce.

> How much do you think gets taken out of your paycheck before you get it in country's with universal healthcare?

Less. https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm has a chart of all OECD healthcare spending, both public and private. The US clearly stands out at the end. Employer-provided healthcare "gets taken out of your paycheck" all the same, just less visibly. This is a significant part of the political problem in the US; the true costs are hidden.

> And who the hell has an 8k deductible?

Most folks on an ACA Bronze plan.

https://news.ehealthinsurance.com/insights-blog/lower-premiu...

"For a family of four, average Bronze plan deductibles are rising by 3% (from $13,017 to $13,394), while the average maximum out-of-pocket limit is increasing 4% (from $14,916 to $15,462)."

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#158

Post by _aplt »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #133
skeletal88 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obligatory comment about how crazy this is on many levels. 1. You are being charged prices that you are not expected to pay, but need to negotiate on 2. When you go to a doctor to have a procedure or have an emergency then you don't know what you are paying. In normal countries there is A price list, which is THE price list for all hospitals that are part of the national health care system. If they want to have a…

Just out of curiosity, which normal countries do you have experience with in this regard?

France, Belgium operate like this.

Although in Belgium I've found out that you can still have unexpected costs because for some reason, only one type of procedure per day can be reimbursed. Which means if you have a problem that takes two (or more) ultrasound scans to be diagnosed, only one of those will get reimbursed and you'll have to pay for the others.

This happened to us with our kid, first hospital did a scan, concluded that we should go to the children's hospital close by for better treatment, the doctor there did a scan there the same day to see for himself (at 23:30! half an hour later and it would have been reimbursed) and of course this one had to be paid for. Which is beyond stupid IMO. Well at least it wasn't US-level prices.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#159

Post by gruez »

WillDaSilva wrote: post #146
gruez wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In a way it's a form of feudalism, tying people physically to their employment. uhh, what? Is employment in general "a form of feudalism" because people depend on it to fund their basic needs?

People can quit their job, and then meet their needs using their savings (if they have any), or welfare. The same is not true for health insurance.

They can't get health insurance on healthcare.gov?

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#160

Post by arethuza »

skeletal88 wrote: post #109
jzwinck wrote: post #3

A quarter million US dollars. Of course the hospital never expects to receive this amount of money. Either they will negotiate it down for uninsured patients, or they will accept a lesser amount from the insurance company. Insurance companies like this over representation of costs because: 1. If you have a percentage copay (edit: "coinsurance"), say 10%, they will tell you to pay $25k because it's 10%, but they might…

The obligatory comment about how crazy this is on many levels. 1. You are being charged prices that you are not expected to pay, but need to negotiate on 2. When you go to a doctor to have a procedure or have an emergency then you don't know what you are paying. In normal countries there is A price list, which is THE price list for all hospitals that are part of the national health care system. If they want to have a…

"In normal countries there is A price list"

I've never even heard of such a thing in the UK NHS - i guess some kind of cost accounting must occur but I don't think it goes anywhere near patients or care givers.

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