321–330 of 722 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that’s your choice. And if you want to get vaccinated, keep up with boosters, and wear a mask in the workplace that can be your choice as well.
Do I have a choice not to work with you?
You can choose to get vaccinated.
You can choose to wear a mask.
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At which point you will be dismissed if you have not found and secured a remote position within the company. That part of the policy has not changed. Until they announce it has we should assume they are intending to follow though.
It's a choice though. You could just get vaccinated and not worry about getting fired.
The word 'just' must be one of the most heavily used words of the last 18 months. The problem is that 'just' is the start of a slippery slope. Governments and organisations rarely withdraw authoritarian diktats, once we've allowed them in.
Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine. For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another.
> Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine. It seems NYC has been registering a daily average of new 700 confirmed cases of covid, which is growing fast. This is a lower limit of the true rate of transmission as they reflect confirmed cases through molecular tests. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh…
Source?
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How are you so sure you know the risk of Covid, that has both an immediate and longitudinal risk, that will likely increase due to fitness escapes? Let's not forget there are still unknown unknowns regarding the longitudinal risk of Covid.
Evolutionary pressure selects for less deadly viruses over time. You're right though, there is still longitudinal risk as this does not preclude a vastly more deadly strain--but at that point the effectiveness of a vaccine is similarly unknown.
I'm hearing that for the first time, do you have a source?
> longitudinal risk
With longitudinal I meant the risk of what we have labelled 'long Covid' but really seems to be a conglomerate of different, sometimes chronic diseases in different people, that we still don't really know how to treat effectively (not very frequent in absolute terms, but orders of magnitude more frequent than any serious side effects we have observed due to the vaccines).
So if I understand you correctly, what you are fearing is that there is some unknown risk about the mRNA vaccine, that will only reveal itself over time, but that we have no idea about the mechanism of action nor any actual cases. Is that right?
vaccines / covid are the new politics/religion from speaking from identity[0]? [0] http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
I'm really upset with this decision. I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID over the unknown longitudinal risk of the vaccine. My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy is extremely important to me. Under no circumstances will I yield that decision to my employer! Their demand only further reinforces my desire not to take the vaccine. W…
I hope you're also pro-abortion, but somehow I doubt it
[The Groningen Protocol — Euthanasia in Severely Ill Newborns](https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZAuf1XZ8FnuCq5M0nmQ...)
[After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?](https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZpff1XZHSCOnUBdNG0E...)
Once the vaccines have Full FDA Approval then of course they can be mandated. Until then, medics decisions should be between a person and their doctor. Just like abortion.
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> Delta is confirmed to be more contagious and less deadly. Sort of, delta is confirmed to be less contagious and less deadly among a (significantly) vaccinated population. It is probably more contagious than the initial variant among an unvaccinated population, yes. But whether or not its more or less deadly, or whether vaccines + improved treatments have reduced the severity/survivability isn't clear. So delta is l…
Agreed and it’s the “we don’t really know” but we’re forcing the vaccine on everyone that’s the problem. What we do know is that vaccinated can still catch and spread covid. The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre... There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vac…
I guess, but the CDC isn't the only reliable source of information, and from everything else we see (international studies and natural experiments from things like hospitals testing all arrivals for all causes), the vaccine still has something like a 50-90% reduction in infection rate, depending on the particular variant and study. And beyond that, a 90%+ reduction in sever cases.
> There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vaccinated groups
Yes, as the CDC website says, in bold "Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected". What we know is that the vaccines appear to be highly effective at preventing severe cases, and slightly less effective (though still pretty darn good) at preventing infection whatsoever.
Bayes rule would suggest that as the majority of people become vaccinated, we'll begin to see a larger and larger share of infections coming from vaccinated individuals. But, we'll also see fewer infections (and fewer deaths!) overall.
While we don't know precisely how delta compares to the initial variant, we do know its more infectious, and still quite deadly (from its impact in India). So we do know enough to draw the conclusion that Delta is dangerous, almost certainly more dangerous than the older variants, and we also have data to support the claim that vaccines are more effective immunity against delta than natural infection. That's enough information, or if it isn't, what else would convince you?
[FWIW, I disagree with mandatory vaccination] Unsure about anyone else, but I have been very much taken by surprise by the level of anti-vax and anti-lockdown sentiment during the pandemic. I'd have expected _some_ of the behaviour we're seeing, but not on this scale. In the UK we've seen huge "freedom marches", which are literally mass acts of disobedience against public health policies designed to save the lives of…
It's pretty bizarre. At least in the US, there's been mandatory vaccinations for decades for schooling, and only fringe anti-vaxxers have opposed it. It's largely been considered settled and non-controversial (except to anti-vaxxers in recent years); a basic, common sense public health requirement, not really any different from, say, health codes. Now, apply the same principle to an active pandemic and half the count…
The 'freedom marches' as far as I'm aware were mainly focusing on lockdown and vaccine passports. The former is a general liberty issue, but the latter is actually a really sensitive subject in Britain.
Since basically forever, it's been a point of principle that British Citizens Do Not and Will Not carry identification around. Even if you're pulled over by the police when driving, you are only required to submit documentation via post within 7 days of being pulled over.
Dozens of governments have floated identity cards for nearly the last 50 years, and it was a surefire way to quickly tarnish a party's reputation.
Vaccine passports are ID cards on steroids.
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>>> One has to believe at some point that liberty is worth a certain amount of risk. Others will be taking a risk for your liberty, that is where it becomes unacceptable. We live in a society and individual freedoms must be balanced by the responsibilities towards your fellow man.
This misses the point. "Liberty" isn't the freedom to put yourself at risk with no consequences to anyone or anything else. It is recognizing that there must be, at some point, a prioritization of giving people choices that might impact others. >individual freedoms must be balanced by the responsibilities Must be balanced not obliterated by "responsibilities".
>>> It is recognizing that there must be, at some point, a prioritization of giving people choices that might impact others.
There will always be a set of people who prioritize themselves over others and in the case of corona as we have seen it just takes 1 selfish person to start the snowballing effectt.
We are seeing actual Zombie movie tropes playing out in real life coz of this corona pandemic. even if 98% of people get vaccinated, the holdout population maybe enough to incubate and spread new variants.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>> One has to believe at some point that liberty is worth a certain amount of risk. Others will be taking a risk for your liberty, that is where it becomes unacceptable. We live in a society and individual freedoms must be balanced by the responsibilities towards your fellow man.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious here but arent those that don't want the vaccine a risk just for themselves? If they want to risk it it's their problem/choice. One thing everyone seems to ignore is those people that have immunity/antibodies and don't actually need a vaccine. Why is that? As far as I managed to read here and there not even the shot I had protects me from catching or spreading the virus. It only re…
We have seen the kind of snowballing effect 1 or 2 infected can cause.
Of course vaccines do not have 100% efficacy rate, but the risk of getting corona and its effects is at least a bit reduced if you get vaccinated.