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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#291

Post by yosito »

grepfru_it wrote: post #282
yosito wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If these vaccines were regular, inactivated virus vaccines There are also inactivated viral vector vaccines for COVID. I got J&J because it was what was available to me. I would have gotten an mRNA vaccine if I could. I agree that the mRNA vaccines should be studied for long term effects, but with what we know about them so far, my prediction is that we will find them to be much safer in the long term than viral ve…

>I expect that I challenge you to try again without assumptions! Unless you are saying, for those who are unsure of long term health risks, to just follow your expectations? Please take a pause before replying to understand why people are hesitant to blindly follow the blind

Thank you for making a good point. I'm saying we should use the limited data we have to make the best predictions we can until all of the data comes in. Of course, predictions don't always end up being right, weather forecasts being the obvious example, but there is still value in making them and trusting them (with a grain of salt).

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#292

Post by Layke1123 »

ReadEvalPost wrote: post #222

I'm really upset with this decision. I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID over the unknown longitudinal risk of the vaccine. My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy is extremely important to me. Under no circumstances will I yield that decision to my employer! Their demand only further reinforces my desire not to take the vaccine. W…

What fucking longitudinal risks of the vaccine? Its just the spike protein. What about the longitudinal effects of a novel virus you idiot!?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#293

Post by HNfriend234 »

marton78 wrote: post #190
boulos wrote: post #177

Can someone explain the “I won’t get it until it’s fully approved by the FDA” logic to me? Unlike usual vaccine trials, these vaccines have been deployed worldwide with hundreds of millions of people across many different conditions. Europe stopped using some due to an extremely rare blood clotting episode that was tens of people out millions. That suggests that rare, acute side effects have been (mostly?) discovered…

I'm not sure I can explain anything related to the FDA (I'm European) but maybe I can shed some light on the insight what people are worried about. These vaccines have been applied hundreds of million times in the past year, true. Therefore, we have a very good understanding of their adverse effects in the first 6-12 months. What we cannot know, however, are possible adverse effects that are longer term. Susceptibili…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the JnJ vaccine use the old vaccine technology compared to the newer Mrna vaccines?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#294

Post by josh_today »

random314 wrote: post #224
josh_today wrote: post #148

Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine. For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another.

> For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another. But it is kinda easy to guess from your post.

That’s your assumption. Someone can be in favor of personal health privacy, against big government, and still be pro medicine.

Single minded, unquestionable, blind following is not science.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#295

Post by astannard »

Spock logic "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" as an individual it will feel wrong but from the point of view for the many it seem selfish.

I do think people with no vaccine now are becoming more and more at risk as the vaccinated population grows with more social interaction without much consequence to the vaccinated. This has increased the risks to the unvaccinated. Being a holdout is not a great position to be in now.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#296

Post by josh_today »

karmasimida wrote: post #165
josh_today wrote: post #148

Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine. For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another.

And, what is your point? So you are saying would come to the workplace, knowingly not vaccinated, and feeling no problem at all?

If that’s your choice.

And if you want to get vaccinated, keep up with boosters, and wear a mask in the workplace that can be your choice as well.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#297

Post by elcomet »

ReadEvalPost wrote: post #244
mjburgess wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you factoring in risk to others? The aggregate risk of a poorly-vaccinated population is, presumably, still likely much higher than the "longitudinal risks" of vaccines? ie., it seems unlikely to me that vaccines will kill 100,000s (and, with covid continuing, 10s,000s+/yr). Even doing this based on individual preference alone, presumably you have preferences for the safety of (some) others; of your workplace; et…

Yes, of course I think about others. I would never go in with symptoms of any infectious disease. Were I asked to work in a building away from people that are high-risk or are regularly in contact with high-risk people I would easily oblige. There are multiple possible solutions that do not violate my bodily autonomy. I agree with your assessment that major adverse effects are unlikely, but ultimately unknowns are im…

The issue is that young people can die of covid, even if it's rare, also they can have some comorbidity that they do not want their employer to know about.

Also, you can transmit covid and be asymptomatic.

Finally, death is not the only "bad" outcome of covid. About 1/10 people have "long covid", ie symptoms that persist over time (lack of smell or taste, fatigue..). And this affects young people too.

So, as others have said many times, this vaccine is not a matter of individual choice. This is an infectious disease, so by being infectious, you may harm others, even young people. This is why governments or companies are making it mandatory.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#298

Post by yosito »

chopin wrote: post #288
yosito wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If these vaccines were regular, inactivated virus vaccines There are also inactivated viral vector vaccines for COVID. I got J&J because it was what was available to me. I would have gotten an mRNA vaccine if I could. I agree that the mRNA vaccines should be studied for long term effects, but with what we know about them so far, my prediction is that we will find them to be much safer in the long term than viral ve…

Afaik at least for the Adenovirus based ones these have not been used before as well.

There are several adenovirus based vaccines, including vaccines for tuberculosis and influenza, among others. The first adenovirus vaccine I'm aware of was developed in the 1970s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#299

Post by intended »

ReadEvalPost wrote: post #278
Pyramus wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you so sure you know the risk of Covid, that has both an immediate and longitudinal risk, that will likely increase due to fitness escapes? Let's not forget there are still unknown unknowns regarding the longitudinal risk of Covid.

Evolutionary pressure selects for less deadly viruses over time. You're right though, there is still longitudinal risk as this does not preclude a vastly more deadly strain--but at that point the effectiveness of a vaccine is similarly unknown.

COVID spreads most in the few days before and after the appearance of symptoms. Organ failure, lethality, are largely due to the immune response to the virus.

The virus has little evolutionary pressure to be less lethal. COVID has already spread before the symptoms appear.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#300

Post by hiram112 »

I’m neutral on the vaccine itself, and I don’t believe Google and FB are doing this for any valid health reason. It’s more political signaling.

Since it’s really one “side” of the culture divide who’s pushing this, I just want to ensure we’re all on the new rules:

1. I don’t ever want to hear the “my body, my choice” slogan again. Not when abortion laws are debated, not when you’re demanding legalization of drugs, not when the dangerous bath houses are being shut down, etc. Your bodily autonomy apparently stops when any vague connection to the “common good” can be made.

2. Don’t even try to continue to play the “IDs for voting are racist” card. Not while you’re demanding to see my vaccine card to buy groceries. It’s just too absurd to even debate it with a straight face at this point, so don’t try.

3. Don’t cry when this same precedent is used by private businesses in ways the “science” will inevitably enable. In 20 years, they’ll have enough knowledge to correlate everything from intelligence to aggression to specific genetic markers that can be tweaked. “Sorry, for the safety of our fellow employees, we won’t hire until they’ve been vaccinated against hyper-aggression.”

4. When the right comes back to power, no more pseudo tears when they literally place land mines along the southern border to keep out dangerous, unvaccinated immigrants. Likewise, all your H1Bs were denied cause two people got Polio or some other mostly eradicated virus in India.

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