Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#151

Post by hereforphone » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #125

hereforphone wrote: post #72

I am saying this as someone who has both shots and generally supports the vaccination. From what I understand Google is known as a company with a "liberal" culture. Is demanding employees accept one side of an argument and adhere to it (or face the consequences) contrary to the definition of "liberal"? That's the problem with Western politics. Liberal vs. conservative is no longer about how permissive we are with ide…

This policy has nothing to do with opinions and political leanings; it's a physical safety policy for an office. Most offices would also deny you access if you try to get in and stab fellow employees with dirty needles you found by the bus stop. You could argue the merits of Google not allowing employees the option to permanently work from home, but as far as their offices are concerned this is a very sane requiremen…

Theoretically. If you had an office in Pennsylvania or Minnesota and employed a lot of people that were Amish or Muslim (respectively), and for whatever reason would not accept the shot, would you fire them or allow them to work from home?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#152

Post by benmw333 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

TheHypnotist wrote: post #127

benmw333 wrote: post #89

Government forces you to pay for the vaccine and then forces the company you work for to take it or lose your job. Liberty is long gone in America. Nothing chaps my ass more than hearing and seeing the "vaccines are free" propaganda. Not to mention the billions government has spent in marketing and advertising on this vaccine. When was the last time government spent trillions to save 600,000 lives?

Nothing you said makes sense or is based on reality, particularly the inane last line of your comment.

What is: government handing billions of us dollars to moderna, pfizer and janssen

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#153

Post by astura » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #132

dgs_sgd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people resistant to taking them are concerned with potential “long term”effects so by definition argue that it wouldn’t be known by now.

> The people resistant to taking them are concerned with potential “long term”effects Not necessarily long-term. I would suggest that short-term effects such as thrombosis of myocarditis, however rare, are also a valid cause for concern.

This concern must be taken in context, myocarditis is also a side effect of COVID-19 infection.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266633762...

Last year a Red Sox pitcher missed an entire season due to myocarditis caused by COVID-19 infection.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30929594/red-sox-p-eduar...

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#154

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #140

TulliusCicero wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the right to put others at risk of harm. That's why, at least in the US, vaccinations are already usually mandatory for entering public school.

We do have that right. Take cars for example, we drive extremely dangerous machines down the road that kill thousands each year. They also put out dangerous pollutants that kill many people. We all live in a world where there is a give and take. It is only recently that people decided we have a right to live risk-free.

No, you don't. We do accept some risks, but in the case of cars, there are quite a few mandatory things involved designed to limit the risk: it's illegal to drive without a license, illegal to drive while drunk, cars are required to have various safety features to be street-legal, etc.

Same principle here. Vaccines don't completely eliminate the risk of danger from covid, they only reduce it, just like the car regulations.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#155

Post by lanternfish » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #79

I'm shocked so many people on HN support this. The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)? I'm sure many people will respond to this saying "they don't need to turn over their full medical history!" but once we turn over a part of it, they will…

'Google announced Wednesday it would require all in-office workers'

First sentence of the article.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#156

Post by Panther34543 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

Ugg, why doesn't anybody, whether it be government officials, employers, whatever, ever consider those with natural immunity?

It's like some weird joke. The official CDC estimates over 115 MILLION natural infections in the U.S. alone, and that only accounts for February 2020-March 2021. It doesn't account for all the infections before February 2020 (I and most of my coworkers in downtown SF got it in January) nor any of the infections of the last 4 months, so that number should probably be at 130-140 million or more.

Yet, for some unknown reason, natural infection is NEVER talked about anywhere. Why? There's an absolute ton of natural immunity that isn't being talked about or considered and it's very, very, strange. Many people have no intention of taking the vaccine because they prefer natural immunity.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#157

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

jkingsman wrote: post #143

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) is only relevant in terms of your health care provider(s) disclosing information. A company is completely free to demand proof of vaccination records xor refuse to employ you (and as long as they're demanding it from you and not your health care provider [without your permission], there is no precedent being set here and HIPAA doesn't even enter the picture). As a general rule of thumb (barring some…

interesting - I thought either HIPAA (thanks for the correction), FMLA or ADA protected employees from being asked about medical information that could result in they being discriminated against in regards to employment things.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#158

Post by hereforphone » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #130

hereforphone wrote: post #72

I am saying this as someone who has both shots and generally supports the vaccination. From what I understand Google is known as a company with a "liberal" culture. Is demanding employees accept one side of an argument and adhere to it (or face the consequences) contrary to the definition of "liberal"? That's the problem with Western politics. Liberal vs. conservative is no longer about how permissive we are with ide…

Who cares about liberal vs conservative? Trying to ensure employee safety is just the responsible thing to do for an employer.

That's definitely the outer surface of the issue, you're right. Some issues have deeper things going on.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#159

Post by majormajor » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #79

I'm shocked so many people on HN support this. The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)? I'm sure many people will respond to this saying "they don't need to turn over their full medical history!" but once we turn over a part of it, they will…

Before Obamacare, I did have to fill out my full medical history when starting a job in order to get the employer-provided health plan.

So we've actually improved on that, thankfully! The pro-vacccination crowd doesn't seem like the crowd that's looking to turn back that clock.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#160

Post by nabla9 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #11

Whatarethese wrote: post #2

Good. Its time to stop messing around with this. The vaccines are tested and are safe.

Why are the major COVID-19 vaccines still under FDA emergency use authorization guidelines? What's preventing the FDA from dropping those special rules and treating the vaccine like every other vaccine?

Pfizer/BioNTech already has full authorization in Switzerland, Australia and New Zealand, Saudi Arabia an Brazil.

Pfizer/BioNTech made application for full approval in the US and the goal is January 2022.

Phase III trial formally ends early next year. The emergency authorization has provided huge amount of extra data outside ongoing Phase III trial.