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Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

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Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#121

Post by sofixa »

Zhenya wrote: post #74
jimmy2020 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about an entity committing war crimes and pretend to get involved in humanitarian efforts inside the US? Do think it's suspicious? Or genuine efforts, killing in one part and aiding in another. Seriously, I am curious to know. Do you think it's just about helping or more about the media campaign? And how do you consider war crimes nonsensical inflammatory thing? Well, at least it is not a "thing".

Jimmy - peeling apart your statement: Israel is not pretending to get involved; they sent personnel who helped remove people from the rubble. Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that. In conclusion 1) israel sent this team and they did help 2) how can i possibly know the intent, all we can see is the action, and it is help.

> Your warcrimes comment is not fact based; so I feel nothing about that

Not fact based? I don't know how anyone can possibly deny what Israel is doing is literally war crimes par excellence.

Illegally occupying and settling foreign land? Bombing civilians? Open air prison? Multiple armed attacks in foreign countries like Iran and Iraq?

The UN, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, among the authorities on human rights and war crimes agree with that.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#122

Post by nashashmi »

jkkorn wrote: post #70
jimmy2020 wrote: post #62

It would be great if IDF did the same when it comes to Gaza: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes...

Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc... . Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/m…

The Wikipedia is a case of whataboutism. And a complaint of how difficult it is to influence HRW by government, leaders and special interest groups.

The fact that you linked to a jpost article and shined light on the little israel does to “save” lives after literally bombarding them tells me where you stand in relation to the conflict.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#123

Post by metta2uall »

jkkorn wrote: post #70
jimmy2020 wrote: post #62

It would be great if IDF did the same when it comes to Gaza: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes...

Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc... . Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/m…

By "don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians" do you mean the warning phone calls? They don't make such calls when their aim is to assassinate someone - for obvious reasons.. The IDF also has good information on who lives where - that's how they know where to bomb - so they know that many children will be killed/murdered - as they often are.. The aim is killing some terrorist leader - which is arguably rather dubious given that they'll soon be replaced and the additional hatred will help greatly with terroist recruitment..

e.g. see https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/gaza-israel-wiping-entir...

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#124

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

Zhenya wrote: post #93
radycov wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's entirely on topic because it shows an alternative reality starkly juxtaposed against humanitarian propaganda. I have no doubt if this was China or Russia or Saudi Arabia being discussed it would be fair game. Israel deserves to be held to a far higher level of scrutiny given its military might is entirely funded by US tax payers and AIPAC controlled Congress.

This one is easy: US provides Israel with roughly $5-6B in military funding which has to be spent back with US suppliers (please add details if anyone has it) The total IDF budget in 2011 (latest I could find and has increased) is over $20b. more reading: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you... (aljazeera of all places!) I dont thi…

The comment you replied to was hyperbolic, but it has a point. Why are my taxes going towards paying for 30% of Israel's military?? They do nothing to improve the safety and stability of my country, in fact they increase geopolitical tensions.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#125

Post by cik »

tguvot wrote: post #65
cik wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when has ZAKA not trained with, and trained search and rescue? After basic, and initials there's are courses with ZAKA. ZAKA wasn't the provider of service, just of training.

Maybe they occasionally do operation training together in order to know how to work together at crisis, but it's first time that I hear that zaka trains IDF search&rescue. I googled for it, and the only thing that I found is that IDF trained zaka people.

גם וגם

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#126

Post by throwaway210222 »

jkkorn wrote: post #119
radycov wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When even AP wouldn't dare criticise Israel for destroying its building in Gaza, it's clear there's a need for a counter narrative to the one sided propaganda. And the one Jewish woman who dared to open her mouth was immediately fired: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associa...

Oh but AP did criticise at first...but the editor did admit there was a Hamas presence in the building https://www.businessinsider.com/former-associated-press-edit... Going back to the AlJazeera aspect: Qatar funds Hamas (one source cites 400m USD in 2014) AND provides the "right media coverage" through AlJazeera. From where I'm standing it doesn't look like there is one sided propaganda

> but the editor did admit there was a Hamas presence in the building

Ah, so its OK to drop bombs on the entire building then?

So, by extrapolation, if there is a Hamas teacher or a Hamas nurse in a school or hospital, then the IDF can wipe those out too?

Nice.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#127

Post by skinkestek »

jkkorn wrote: post #70
jimmy2020 wrote: post #62

It would be great if IDF did the same when it comes to Gaza: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes...

Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc... . Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/m…

You are correct.

Avoiding civilian casualties is however extremely hard when you deal with people who:

- fire rockets from schools, hospitals and generally populated areas (there are wide fields they could have used)

- encourage people to stay when they get informed about bombing

- count bombed terrorists as civilians (lists exist with names and photos of claimed "civilians" in uniforms and with guns)

- when hitting a stash of rockets in the middle of a neighborhood there's always a chance something flies further than the original blast

- "civilian casualties of Israeli bombing" also contains a good number of casualties of defect arab terrorist rockets.

Furthermore: it has always started on the Arab ("Palestinian") side the last years.

A massive difference exist if someone gets hurt after they started the fight or not.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#128

Post by DSingularity »

Trias11 wrote: post #5
DSingularity wrote: post #4

It would be nice if they help with recovering the remains of building collapses in Gaza. Building collapses are a common occurrence there.

It's highly correlated with rockets being fired off nearby. Quite predictable.

Yeah, according to the people that launch the bombs. Yet, according to the pictures, the people that take the pictures, the people that are humanitarians, and pretty much the world consensus — the only correlation is that the victims being bombed are almost always Arab Palestinians who won’t surrender their rights to Israel. But who is surprised that a colonial power oppresses the indigenous population?

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#129

Post by skinkestek »

zensavona wrote: post #85
jkkorn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc... . Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/m…

Is Amnesty also biased? https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...

I just glanced it.

Yes. Bias here. Whoever wrote this has not been reading history closely enough.

I will continue to support Amnesty though. One of the better ones IMO, together with MSF.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#130

Post by DSingularity »

skinkestek wrote: post #127
jkkorn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc... . Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/m…

You are correct. Avoiding civilian casualties is however extremely hard when you deal with people who: - fire rockets from schools, hospitals and generally populated areas (there are wide fields they could have used) - encourage people to stay when they get informed about bombing - count bombed terrorists as civilians (lists exist with names and photos of claimed "civilians" in uniforms and with guns) - when hitting…

Israeli settlers regularly steal Palestinian lands and homes. Israeli military regularly demolishes Palestinian homes. Israeli snipers kill Palestinian children with sniper rifles, sometimes while comrades are cheering. Israeli drones kill Palestinian children playing soccer on the beach.

The Israeli army wants us to not believe our eyes when we see the destruction of civilian buildings [1]. They want us to pretend like its normal for snipers to cheer when they shoot unarmed civilians [2]. They want us to pretend like its normal to fire missiles at children playing on the beach [3].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLhXRDS1Dtw

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLzRv_kNXU

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_war_beach_bombing_in...

I wonder, what is that makes you dehumanize Palestinians and present such a skewed picture of what happens to Palestinians?

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