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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

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221–230 of 292 posts

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an RCT. The work itself makes this very clear, it's observational, based on what we'll call "pseudo-voluntary" testing. Just provide the RCT for your claims-- this is necessary since the vaccine is known to be effective on a symptomatic level.

Please provide the RCT that shows that vaccinated individuals have similar levels of infection to unvaccinated individuals. What the RCTs for Pfizer and Moderna showed was that the vaccines reduced the symptomatic infection rate by 95%. But you are misconstruing the language being used if you extend that to say "the vaccine is known to be effective on a symptomatic level". The statement about symptomatic infection ju…

Not RCT, but look up infections in Israel.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#222
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely untrue. The reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals is what is providing a place for Covid to hide and mutate. Vax critics were silenced and ridiculed because they are dangerous deceivers who need to be called out and held to account for the consequences of their lies.

> selfish unvaccinated individuals "selfish" implies you think there is some benefit to those individuals in declining it. What do you think that is?

You fail to take into account. that they might be stupid and selfish.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All current variations of concern come from mostly unvaccinated countries. Isn't it more significant not where they emerge (which is by random mutation) but where they do well? And don't they seem to do well in countries that have vaccinated more people? Is it even particularly easy to say where a variant originated? Could the mutations happen multiple times independently?

The Delta variant is a humanitarian crisis in less vaccinated India and a moderate public health concern in countries with higher rates of vaccination.

From this page: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/india India seems to be doing better than the UK on basically every metric (switch to "Map" view for comparison).

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#224
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, IMO there seems to be a growing public opinion that unvaccinated individuals are to blame for the increasing dominance of variants of concern (delta, gamma, etc). This is no coincidence. The media has been directed to _not_ blame vaccines for ANYTHING, as doing so would negatively impact their narrative. It's well known that people vaccinated with leaky vaccines are the breeding ground for super-bu…

> The media has been directed to _not_ blame vaccines for ANYTHING. Who told Fox News, when did they tell them, who did they tell (individuals, CEO, janitor), how many times did they told them? Please be specific.

It doesn't usually work like that. Media is directed via money and preferential treatment from the ruling class. For example, in some countries state has bought air time and ads in media. Media welcomes the gravy-train and makes sure no dissent is aired.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#225
post #219
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason I want to wear a seatbelt even though I’m still restricted by the speed limit: demonstrably lower chances of not merely death but also sub-fatal harm.

Would you want to wear a seatbelt if it also injected you with a novel gene therapy vaccine, which is basically a russian-roulette with rare harmful health effects and your family can't sue the state nor the pharma?

Would you rather play Russian roulette with one live round somewhere in 200,000 chambers, or one round in 100 chambers?

You don’t get to opt out and attempting to do so gets you the 100 chambers. Neither you nor your family get to sue anyone in either case. If you opt for 100 either directly or by failing to make a choice fast enough, anyone around you who hasn’t faced the 200,000 yet — even if they wanted to — faces the 100 a few days later.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#226
post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

What’s more interesting is that 0/6 of the miners who had natural immunity were re-infected. That points to natural immunity preventing spread. The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit. Vaccine mandates or checking for vaccination status are pointless because of this.

> here is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit

You can save more hospital beds for people ?

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#227
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> countries that practically eradicated the virus instantly after vaccination (like Israel) Source for this absurd claim?

It is not an absurd claim. The statistics are available to everybody. Israel implemented vaccinations efficiently and very quickly their infection rates dropped close to zero. I live in Poland and same thing happened here. Now the infection rates grow again because the current vaccination rate and vaccine themselves are not enough to protect.

Infection rate is going up in Israel now.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry on a limited device where I can't do much formatting. You made a pretty explicit claim earlier in this thread "The mRNA vaccines are not "adequate": they are being treated by governments as if they aren't working whilst also being significantly more dangerous than every other vaccine programme out there by a long way". Talking about historic or generalized vaccine ROI is different and is a new claim that isn't…

Here's an archive of the Medium post so you can read it without dealing with their soft paywall: https://archive.is/uKzSZ

Thank you. The article is very reasonable. It makes limited and tight claims, mostly similar points to ones I make elsewhere in this thread: that risk is relative, under-reporting is real and so on.

At one point it claims the only vaccine to be withdrawn post-approval is for rotavirus. Perhaps he means, in the USA and only after VAERS was set up. There were other vaccines withdrawn post-rollout than that one. The CNN article I cited already is one American example but there are others. Note that "withdrawn" is a slightly vague standard, for example, in the Pandemrix case, German doctors refused to use it in Germany even though it had been approved elsewhere, which in hindsight turned out to be the right call. Does that count as withdrawn: hard to say.

My own views aren't exclusively based on VAERs. I am convinced there must be very widespread under-reporting because of how ideological vaccination has become. The reason I think this is that I keep encountering anecdotes in my daily life from people who had extremely severe reactions to the vaccine but are blowing it off as no big deal. I'm not seeking these anecdotes out. I don't ask people about their vaccines. Yet, I keep hearing about these problems anyway. For example:

Two neighbours of the parents of my partner, who both died after taking the vaccine.

A scientist I know was trying to convince me the vaccines are perfectly safe, then almost in the same breath admitted that it knocked him flat for days and made him so sick he could hardly move. That does not meet my definition of "safe".

A friend told me he'd been walking down the street when he overheard a conversation by a guy on a phone behind him. The guy was saying that someone in his close family had died days after taking the vaccine.

I had a similar experience: I overheard a conversation when people who knew each other bumped into each other near where I was sitting in a park. One of the women had clearly not been seen for a while because of severe reactions to her first dose. She described having high fever, difficulty breathing and being unable to leave her bed for a week. She also said she "thought she was dying".

Outside of daily life, I read a news story a few days ago about a guy whose wife died just days after taking the vaccine. She was perfectly healthy before, early 60s, no signs of any problems.

All this is really quite disturbing. I've never heard such a constant flow of stories about any other vaccine. Also, the symptoms people describe are very similar to actually having COVID itself, which is not a big surprise when you look at how the vaccines work. Actually the most disturbing thing is people's reactions to it. The guy whose wife died stressed in the news story that he's a big supporter of the vaccines, and just wanted people to know that some families are "affected" by it. The women who got so sick she thought she was dying went back for her second shot anyway. The scientist was telling me how perfectly, totally, undoubtably fine mRNA Tech is and how it also made him so sick he couldn't work. The point of the vaccines is to stop people getting sick! But, they've been presented as a moral issue, one of collectivist responsibility, and governments have all committed themselves to vaccines-or-bust. I quite simply do not believe we have anything approaching valid data on how dangerous these things are.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#229

Off topic but I wonder if one could build a "Covid Canary". A device that can alarm when there is a presence of Covid in the air in an enclosed room. Supposedly there are several companies working on a covid breathalizer.

When this tech comes, only trust the autonomous ones not connected to Internet or other means of control.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Delta variant is a humanitarian crisis in less vaccinated India and a moderate public health concern in countries with higher rates of vaccination.

From this page: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/india India seems to be doing better than the UK on basically every metric (switch to "Map" view for comparison).

Obesity rates correlate as well.
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