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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#181

Post by scotty79 »

aranw wrote: post #112
criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

> imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens I've wondered this ever since the UK changed it's approach and now that we've got to a state where there is pretty much no restrictions. I think scientists around the world also have this concern with the UK's approach

I think their approach is mirroring the one from the start of the pandemic. They intend let the corona run through the population, but hope that population being vaccinated will reduce the damage. And when most people will get infected with the corona at least once they'll have even better reduction of transmission even when compared to perfect vaccination rates.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#183

Post by peteretep »

lambdaphagy wrote: post #88
peter_retief wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the virus and it was slightly inconvenient, had a slight fever, cough and shortness of breath. Strangly my wife had different symptoms to me, no fever and vomiting. Lasted around 10 days with no lingering symptoms. I think the fever is important because my wife got reinfected but I did not.

Glad you're ok, but I'm surprised you describe SOB as a slight inconvenience. In general, SOB is a pretty bad sign-- you're having trouble getting the one thing you'll die fastest without. Sure, you can put up with temporary mild SOB if you know it's going to stay mild, but not everyone can know that :/

> but I'm surprised you describe SOB as a slight inconvenience

Ever been to a high altitude city? I was short of breath for my first week in Mexico City, and my lungs hurt after exercise. It’s very disconcerting, but also just a slight inconvenience.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#184

Post by native_samples »

vampirical wrote: post #176
native_samples wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mRNA vaccines are not "adequate": they are being treated by governments as if they aren't working whilst also being significantly more dangerous than every other vaccine programme out there by a long way, even according to the CDC's own rather unreliable VAERS data. Look at the graph here and repeat that these vaccines are adequate: https://swprs.org/us-vaccine-deaths-increasing-rapidly/ "the human population, as…

Your claims are pretty extraordinary and demand extraordinary evidence. How exactly are they not adequate? How are they being treated as if they aren't working? How are they dangerous? The one source you provide is embarrassingly poorly founded. It takes garbage input sources, obscures even the meager data in them and then decreases the quality of the claims even further with misleading representations. Here's just o…

Paragraphs would help me work through your questions.

Firstly, the claims aren't extraordinary. There is a long history of vaccines being suspended for being more dangerous than is worth it, for example here's a CNN archival story about that:

https://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/30/swine.flu.1976/ind...

"ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The man who led the response to the 1976 swine flu outbreak is defending the vaccination campaign that led to more deaths than the disease, but says he's sorry for the people killed or sickened ... the program was suspended after at least 25 people died from vaccine reactions"

In 2010 there was another Swine Flu scare but not much was learned: Pandemrix was authorized and sold in Europe but turned out to occasionally create narcolepsy in teenagers. Although rare, swine flu was sufficiently mild that this was much worse for the affected people than actually getting the disease would have been. There was a coverup and the true nature of what happened only came out 5 years later thanks to lawsuits.

So there's nothing odd about the idea that a vaccine may yield more injuries or deaths than it can save. It's happened before.

Now, I've already cited the evidence you require: the data from national vaccine reporting systems. That's the graph at the top of the page I linked. You appear to have simply ignored the graph and then gone off on some other link to a paper you found there, which isn't what I was referring to, and at any rate seems to actually support my point. Multiply the Y axis of the graph by 0.85 if you want - the numbers are still radically higher than the normal expected rate of vaccine side effects. Or don't. But actual government data cannot be handwaved away with an argument of the form, "some random paper looking at the data has some limitations that it openly admits to" because I wasn't basing my point on that paper to begin with.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#185

Post by peteretep »

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #17
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

I suppose those miners are strong healthy men, wouldnt we expect the same results if they were exposed to the virus while being not-vaccinated? > In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission. I dont think this particular case is a proof of…

> those miners are strong healthy men

I think mining is exceptionally poor for your health, esp re respiratory disease, lack of vitamin D, and also usually highly correlated with near poverty (and the health issues that’s associated with)

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#186

Post by pigeonhole123 »

deathcakes wrote: post #173
thirsty-dove wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not selfish to decline a medical procedure one thinks is unlikely to benefit oneself. Furthermore, it's malpractice for a doctor to advise a patient to undergo a medical procedure that is not more likely than not to benefit that specific patient . Your attitude is what's dangerous.

Sorry but no it is selfish - that is the definition of selfish. 'It won't benefit me; it will benefit the whole of society but I don't give a shit about them so I'm not going to' is the most selfish viewpoint you can have. I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.

How can you be sure of the absence of long term negative consequences?

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#187

Post by vmception »

sterlind wrote: post #13
refurb wrote: post #4

Fully vaccinated individuals getting infected shouldn't be all that surprising. The phase 3 trials of Pfizer and Moderna saw a 95% reduction in severe symptoms. No routine testing for infection was done, only testing if someone showed symptoms. Singapore's gov't is tracking all of their infections and 80% of the population has had 1 shot, 50% fully vaccinated (Pfizer and Moderna). They've had 1096 cases in the last 2…

I feel like a 60% attack rate among fully vaccinated people in one outbreak is pretty chilling, though. Like I'm glad they didn't have severe illness but this news is disappointing. Delta seems to heavily dominate in Singapore [0], and they don't seem to have Gamma at all. The outbreak in this article was Gamma. This study doesn't jive well with the in-vitro tests of vaccinated serum against gamma and the numbers we'…

“Attack rate” is “testing positive”

None of the vaccines were to prevent that

I don’t understand how this messaging was lost

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#188

Post by thirsty-dove »

deathcakes wrote: post #173
thirsty-dove wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not selfish to decline a medical procedure one thinks is unlikely to benefit oneself. Furthermore, it's malpractice for a doctor to advise a patient to undergo a medical procedure that is not more likely than not to benefit that specific patient . Your attitude is what's dangerous.

Sorry but no it is selfish - that is the definition of selfish. 'It won't benefit me; it will benefit the whole of society but I don't give a shit about them so I'm not going to' is the most selfish viewpoint you can have. I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.

> that is the definition of selfish

You're assuming you possess godlike knowledge, when actually we can't be sure what actions will lead to beneficial or harmful results. Are you selfish for refusing to undergo castration? What if I'm really sure it would benefit society? This is one of the many reasons we consider people sovereign over their own bodies.

> I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.

We don't know if that's true, but we're not off to a good start considering the current number of harm/death reports in VAERS.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#189

Post by native_samples »

samus wrote: post #179
native_samples wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK now has a similar test positivity rate to what it had in November 2020 yet a hugely vaccinated population. If the vaccinated aren't spreading it then you're suggesting that the unvaccinated have become drastically more infectious for no apparent reason and in ways that don't show up in contract tracing data. I think the alternative explanations are more likely to be correct: the vaccine is actually not a vacci…

The unvaccinated population is not uniformly distributed though. The vaccines is not rated for the age younger than 12 yet, and it will still take a while to roll it out in the younger age groups. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most vaccine refusers are part of groups who collectively refuse to vaccinate. We know from measles outbreaks that this is often the case. Finally, most vaccines achieve their maximum effect…

It's not rated for children because they appear to be immune to COVID and thus basically no safety results can possibly make the risk/reward tradeoff make sense in that age group.

"one would have to determine the percentage of viable virus particles. Hard to tell whether that's even feasible at scale ... It's not too bad though. At worst this causes a higher than expected false-positive rate."

I'm not sure you're aware of the scale of the problem. There have been studies that correlated PCR test results with ability to do viral culturing and concluded about 60% of all positive test results did not imply infectiousness. For example, this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8166461/

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#190

Post by bananapear »

evgen wrote: post #122
mlang23 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very likely. And has already been said by various critics already months ago. But these people were silenced or ridiculed, because it apparently was already decided the vaccines need to be sold.

Completely untrue. The reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals is what is providing a place for Covid to hide and mutate. Vax critics were silenced and ridiculed because they are dangerous deceivers who need to be called out and held to account for the consequences of their lies.

> selfish unvaccinated individuals

"selfish" implies you think there is some benefit to those individuals in declining it. What do you think that is?

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