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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#81

Post by scheme271 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #26

"Mine workers were mostly men (42/44); median age was 53.3 years. Eighteen of the workers had risk factors for severe COVID-19: high blood pressure (11/44), diabetes mellitus (4/44), or obesity (4/44)." "The overall attack rate was 54.5% (24/44); 87% were symptomatic, 65% with fever, and 22.6% with dyspnea. No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized." This make sense. If more seve…

All of this really depends on the specifics of the disease. For example, HIV is pretty much 100% fatal and it has remained so over the last 40 years. Syphilis and Leprosy also have high fatality rates and have been around for 2000+ years. If a fatal disease doesn't kill the host for a while then it can easily become more transmissible while still being very harmful.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#83

Post by peter_retief »

dopylitty wrote: post #5
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

I had the virus and it was slightly inconvenient, had a slight fever, cough and shortness of breath. Strangly my wife had different symptoms to me, no fever and vomiting. Lasted around 10 days with no lingering symptoms. I think the fever is important because my wife got reinfected but I did not.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#84

Post by criticaltinker »

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission.

The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a minor point as limited rational and evidence was provided.

That being said, IMO there seems to be a growing public opinion that unvaccinated individuals are to blame for the increasing dominance of variants of concern (delta, gamma, etc).

One counterpoint that I’ve come across during my own review of the literature, is the idea that imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens. For example see this peer reviewed publication from 2015: “Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens” (https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...).

My understanding is that this is a relatively new and perhaps highly understudied phenomenon. I wanted to share the idea here because it seems conspicuously missing from many of these discussions. Furthermore, I’d love to hear feedback from someone with more expertise - or just trade relevant links with others who are diving into primary sources as a way to form an educated and well rounded opinion.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#85

Post by elcomet »

timr wrote: post #72
gibba999 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the major one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g. https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid…

> This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. It shows no such thing. It's an analysis of MRIs where the authors infer loss of gray matter in specific regions of the brain. This is in no way "brain damage", and representing it this way is leaping to wild conclusions. Lest you not believe…

> bonus points: can you spot the missing correlate?)

Concussions ?

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#86

Post by ianlevesque »

timr wrote: post #72
gibba999 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the major one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g. https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid…

> This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. It shows no such thing. It's an analysis of MRIs where the authors infer loss of gray matter in specific regions of the brain. This is in no way "brain damage", and representing it this way is leaping to wild conclusions. Lest you not believe…

Denial is quite a river these days. Where else are you going to get a brain imaging study with before and after data on thousands of people? If that's not persuasive and concerning to you I don't think anything will be.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#87

Post by foepys »

camillomiller wrote: post #78
dopylitty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

I got it, and it was annoying, sure, but I had influenza A in the past and boy, was that REALLY bad. I would be totally fine if we get to a point where we consider Covid to be like an endemic seasonal flu for the vaccinated, because I can’t see many ways out otherwise

I think what a lot of people call the flu is actually "the sniffles" which desensitizes people to the danger. Influenza like you had is really, really bad. It takes weeks to recover and the first 1 or 2 weeks are hell.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#88

Post by lambdaphagy »

peter_retief wrote: post #83
dopylitty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

I had the virus and it was slightly inconvenient, had a slight fever, cough and shortness of breath. Strangly my wife had different symptoms to me, no fever and vomiting. Lasted around 10 days with no lingering symptoms. I think the fever is important because my wife got reinfected but I did not.

Glad you're ok, but I'm surprised you describe SOB as a slight inconvenience. In general, SOB is a pretty bad sign-- you're having trouble getting the one thing you'll die fastest without. Sure, you can put up with temporary mild SOB if you know it's going to stay mild, but not everyone can know that :/

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#89

Post by naturalauction »

spfzero wrote: post #65
throwawayboise wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was in response to "I suppose those miners are strong healthy men" They were not. They were obese and hypertensive. That is unhealty no matter what vaccines you take.

Also the median age seemed pretty high for miners in a country with lots more young people than old.

Small nitpick but French Guiana isn’t its own country, it’s a part of France. That being said their population does seem to trend young when compared to the rest of France or other western countries.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#90

Post by chrisco255 »

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #17
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

I suppose those miners are strong healthy men, wouldnt we expect the same results if they were exposed to the virus while being not-vaccinated? > In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission. I dont think this particular case is a proof of…

The key point: The attack rate was 15/25 (60.0%) in fully vaccinated miners, 6/15 (40.0%) in those partially vaccinated or with a history of COVID-19, and 3/4 (75%) in those not vaccinated. Attack rate was 0/6 among persons with a previous history of COVID-19 versus 63.2% among those with no previous history (Table).

In other words, natural immunity from previous Covid case was the only protection and the vaccinated miners were not statistically different than the unvaccinated (sample size of 25 vaccinated at 60% attack rate vs sample size of 4 at 75% attack rate is inconclusive).

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