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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#311

Post by tinus_hn »

kybernetikos wrote: post #309

This looks really great, with some good choices for my kind of use - 3:2 screen, 1080 webcam, better than normal travel on the keys, and being able to easily upgrade memory and storage is a big deal. The reviews seem to be finding concerns with thermals while battery life and overall performance seems pretty so-so. I expect that battery life and performance could be improved through upgrading in the future, but it se…

Interesting that that is a good choice, a webcam and a screen that can’t display its images.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#312

Post by eptcyka »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #278
eptcyka wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are companies who's livelihood is replacing a 4 cylinder engine in an MX-5 with an LS V8.

Yeah, but we were talking about "user upgradeable" here. Even my local dealer won't upgrade engines and most car owners have no idea how to change their oil or a tyre, let alone perform engine transplants. One-off custom cars are a different thing same how there are YouTubers putting headphone jacks in their iPhones or upgrading the soldered VRAM of their Nvidia graphics cards.

Yes, but a lot of car owners do change their own parts, replacing various filters, adding bolt-on parts, changing out suspension, tyres and the like. Just because most people do not do this, doesn't mean that this is something that should be forbidden or designed against. Cars are built to have replaceable parts, why can't laptops be the same? There are issues with the M1 equipped macbooks burning through flash due to users swapping out of the 16 gigabytes of memory that are not expandable. I don't want hardware designers to be legislated out of being able to do interesting things with packaging, like with what AMD is trying to do with integrating memory chips vertically on top of their SoCs, but I would appreciate if there was less hardware turned into e-waste due to a single formerly-user-replaceable chip failing or being deprecated.

Likewise, I'd also like to see less e-waste due to software deprecation (looking at you, Pixel 3).

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#313

Post by michalf6 »

dorfsmay wrote: post #62
nrp wrote: post #4

Framework Founder here! I am happy to answer any questions on the product.

Any chance for a keyboard with a trackpoint and its 3 buttons in the future? A lot of us, addicted to the trackpoint, are not liking some directions Lenovo have taken in the recent years.

+1, trackpoint is keeping me vendor-locked to Lenovo. It's just too useful for text editing to pass up. And it must have 3 buttons, middle button is essential for scrolling.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#315

Post by tpush »

amelius wrote: post #271
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>RAM is sold by the stick in any configuration you can imagine, yet these products are designed to prevent the simplest of upgrades. Of course, but most consumers outside of tech enthusiasts have no idea which stuff in their laptop is upgradable, even when it is, so they just buy a new device whenever they want to upgrade, because that's how they've been conditioned by the industry. >It's like being told that you nee…

"Make a system that even morons can use, and only morons will use it."

That’s both condescending and evidently not true at all.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#316

Post by dbeley »

Hope it succeeds, the HN-crowd is obviously very tacky and already know some well established alternatives (used thinkpads, librem laptops, pinebook, MNT reform) that may be even better for a niche audience (open hardware, no management engine, trackpoint option, etc.), hence the criticism.

But marketed directly to the people that buy all the "normal" laptops out there, it could be a great success.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#317

Post by ddalex »

michalf6 wrote: post #310
ribit wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

I would really prefer that a laptop was just a tiny bit thicker to fit a 100WH battery to compensate for that. My T480 gets 12-16 hours with normal use, I imagine it could easily hit 20 with current processors.

> a 100WH battery

a hand grenade typically releases 250kJ, or about 70Wh

you're asking for the equivalent of 1.5 grenades in your lap :)

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#319

Post by [deleted] »

ribit wrote: post #286
victor9000 wrote: post #254

This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

[deleted]

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#320

Post by ribit »

nspattak wrote: post #301
ribit wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

Can you please point us to some technical report or something where they document the energy saving of moving from dimm slots to soldered ram/ssd ?

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any document like that. There are some papers comparing everything efficiency of different types of RAM, and there is of course indirect evidence of premium notebooks having significantly improved the battery life after moving to LPDDR.
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