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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#581

Post by EdwardDiego »

imwillofficial wrote: post #285
EdwardDiego wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an actual zen teacher who has received transmission, not a charlatan I'm really hoping you were going for darkly ironic humour, if not, please reread your sentence I quoted and, I don't know, contemplate on it. Received transmission? From the Trisolarians perhaps?

Transmission refers to receiving chi, or a spark of energy from an advanced teacher. Perhaps less snark, and more curiosity would serve you on topics like this.

I've had plenty of curiosity in my life time, and have drawn my own conclusions. Here's three of them.

1) There's no scientific evidence for chi. Or qi, ki, whatever you're calling it in an Asian language, because it's just, like, deeper.[1]

2) "Energy" is the most wooly thinking word ever in pseudoprofound proclamations. For the love of Jesus. (Who most likely existed, but was very definitely not the son of YHWH)

3) You can believe what you like, and I'll believe what I like. And if I ever develop fantastical beliefs, I promise I won't expect you to treat them as real things deserving of your serious consideration. And I'll hope you do me the decency of reciprocating that implicit respect.

[1]: https://youtu.be/Z78_rAg4Ldg

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#582

Post by EdwardDiego »

mircea wrote: post #131
EdwardDiego wrote: post #124

A former coworker of mine went to a silent meditation retreat. He's been recovering ever since.

Without more details you're just announcing your biases to HN.

He went on a silent meditative retreat, and had a psychotic break.

That's it, that's the details.

Your surprising defensiveness announced your biases. You monster.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#583

Post by denton-scratch »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #579
denton-scratch wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transmission occurs when one has fully internalised a practice that one has learned from a master (of that practice). You may be able to teach yourself meditation from a book, without a teacher. But that can't confer on you the confidence that you're doing it right. Many practices depend critically on confidence. Of course, you have to be confident that your master has really mastered the particular practice; you gai…

...I don't really want to hear about your religious beliefs, tbh, I've had a lifetime of it already, and I've decided you're all charlatans. Especially if you unnecessarily revert to jargon when trying to explain your beliefs, you mention "tulku" four times, but define it zero times. This is indicative of in-group signaling.

May I suggest that you not read articles about Buddhist meditation then? Less still the comments? I sort-of supposed that nobody would read these comments if they weren't interested.

I avoid articles about pay in the SF area, AI models, Tesla cars, and many other topics. If I read one by accident, I just move on - I don't post a comment whingeing that I'm not interested.

I don't belong to an "in-group" here; I used to be a Buddhist, but I no longer profess any religion. The subject still interests me though; I devoted 40 years of my life to it, and unsurprisingly it has had quite an impact on me.

For what it's worth, a tulku in Tibetan Buddhism is a re-incarnating lama. I realise that I used the wrong word; what I meant was "terton", which is a revealer of hidden teachings. Those hidden/revealed teachings are a specialty of a minority of Tibetan Buddhists - so an "in group", almost by definition. Tertons an interesting subject - if you happen to be interested in such things.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#584

Post by alxndr »

a0-prw wrote: post #509
cyberpunk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really what led me to soto, I don’t buy into the ritual, the chanting (unless it’s at a sessin, and even then only for the bonding experience) and the codes and so on of a lot of the other sects. Soto to me is a very pure expression, I’m also not a big fan of the Sotoshu (my teacher calls them the “funeral directors association”) and the more established Soto schools like the SF Zen Center. Soto, as I underst…

> chanting When I was a kid / teen, I could get into an altered state by repeating a word (any word) in my mind. After a short while, I would "disconnect" (I don't know how to describe it) :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#585

Post by throwaway34241 »

denton-scratch wrote: post #542
throwaway34241 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if it's possible to get into some profoundly different mental state after 1 day of meditation, it makes me a bit curious (and a bit concerned) about what could happen in 10 days... If anyone else has had a similar experience and could weigh in if they've found an extended course helpful that would be really appreciated. I found it very, very difficult to get to no conscious thoughts for 30 minutes, so much so t…

> no conscious thoughts That's not mindfulness. I don't know what it's called; it sounds like some kind of auto-fascism. Noticing thoughts, and noticing that you've been distracted, IS the practice. Everyone has the running dialogue, all the time. One remarkable thing about mindfulness is the way it shows just how fast that dialogue runs. I had no idea that it was possible for me to have 30 thoughts in a couple of se…

> Everyone has the running dialogue, all the time.

Actually this varies! It seems like most people have it, but some people don't (including me). People are often surprised the other exists. [1] I obviously still think, but most of it is non-verbal.

> noticing that you've been distracted, IS the practice

I'm talking about the exercise with the goal to focus awareness on the breath. Of course I found myself thinking all sorts of stuff at first, but I approached it with the goal to be undistracted with pure awareness on the breath. It was very difficult and took a long time, and I can't explain how exactly I did it, but I think I largely got there, and it put me in an intensely altered mental state afterward.

Maybe not having a normal running dialogue made it easier? It still felt extremely difficult though.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9oyhie/is_i... (I'm sure I've seen this come up more than once, there may be better links on Google)

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#586

Post by denton-scratch »

throwaway34241 wrote: post #585
denton-scratch wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no conscious thoughts That's not mindfulness. I don't know what it's called; it sounds like some kind of auto-fascism. Noticing thoughts, and noticing that you've been distracted, IS the practice. Everyone has the running dialogue, all the time. One remarkable thing about mindfulness is the way it shows just how fast that dialogue runs. I had no idea that it was possible for me to have 30 thoughts in a couple of se…

> Everyone has the running dialogue, all the time. Actually this varies! It seems like most people have it, but some people don't (including me). People are often surprised the other exists. [1] I obviously still think, but most of it is non-verbal. > noticing that you've been distracted, IS the practice I'm talking about the exercise with the goal to focus awareness on the breath. Of course I found myself thinking a…

I guess quite a lot of my instruction may have been 'idiosyncratic'.

The way I was instructed, focus on the breath isn't a 'goal', it's a sort of home-base - where you come back to when you notice thoughts (or physical pain, or whatever - it's all 'thoughts'). I was told not to approach it with a goal, and not to look for signs of 'success'.

I think the results differ, even for what appears to be exactly the same practice, depending on your attitude.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#587

Post by agucova »

denton-scratch wrote: post #543
cranesnake wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every therapist I've gone to has suggested this meditation, along with cognitive behavior therapy and medication.

Health services recommend CBT because it's cheap and quick. If it works. There's no other psychological treatment as cheap as CBT.

Cognitive behavioural therapy is the most extensively studied form of therapy, with a pool of evidence supporting it's usage as a first line psychological therapy.

It's not just cheap.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#588

Post by mandmandam »

renewiltord wrote: post #215
littlethrowaway wrote: post #61

Ha! I thought it might have been vipassana. My own experience of this (a 10 day silent retreat, not having done meditation before) was a full blown manic-psychotic experience (never having had any such thing before, nor in family history). If you're interested, I made some audio files [0] talking about what happened. I honestly think it's _insane_ that they (vipassana) will take regular people who haven't done medita…

This sounds exciting and novel to experience. The risk thrills me. What’s the fastest way to self administer?

If you have an interest in rapid (positive) psychological change, at no cost, you may be interested in the Wim Hof method.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#589

Post by mandmandam »

littlethrowaway wrote: post #572
mandmandam wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bi-polar is specifically screened for as a contra-indication for retreats, at least Goenka ones (along with Reiki practice, interestingly). They may still allow a diagnosed individual on, but are supposed to give extra attention. What retreat did you go on, and did they ask about bi-polar experience pre-retreat?

Sorry for the late reply. I'd never had a bipolar experience before the retreat. It is my firm opinion that 10 days of a complete silent retreat was too much stress and triggered it.

I believe teachers and assistants are supposed to keep an eye out for things like that, specifically. Sorry it didn't work out like that for you; and best of luck

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#590

Post by EdwardDiego »

denton-scratch wrote: post #583
EdwardDiego wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...I don't really want to hear about your religious beliefs, tbh, I've had a lifetime of it already, and I've decided you're all charlatans. Especially if you unnecessarily revert to jargon when trying to explain your beliefs, you mention "tulku" four times, but define it zero times. This is indicative of in-group signaling.

May I suggest that you not read articles about Buddhist meditation then? Less still the comments? I sort-of supposed that nobody would read these comments if they weren't interested. I avoid articles about pay in the SF area, AI models, Tesla cars, and many other topics. If I read one by accident, I just move on - I don't post a comment whingeing that I'm not interested. I don't belong to an "in-group" here; I used t…

Thanks for actually explaining your jargon.
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