Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla’s P/E is a function of stockholders inflating the stock price. The allegation here (by my limited understanding) is that Autonomy lied about how much revenue the business was actually generating. It’s not illegal to have your stock price inflated because of demand for the stock, but it is illegal to lie in your financial statements.
OK but how is that possible? Before you sell a company there is a long due diligence process, where all papers and everything else is given to inspection, and I can imagine team of 10 people lawyers accountants and experts going to every, note, paper and even paperclip. Also isn't rule of market capitalism, if I am the seller I can put any price in the product/service I own, if you do not like my price you do not hav…
Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
51–60 of 208 posts
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla’s P/E is a function of stockholders inflating the stock price. The allegation here (by my limited understanding) is that Autonomy lied about how much revenue the business was actually generating. It’s not illegal to have your stock price inflated because of demand for the stock, but it is illegal to lie in your financial statements.
OK but how is that possible? Before you sell a company there is a long due diligence process, where all papers and everything else is given to inspection, and I can imagine team of 10 people lawyers accountants and experts going to every, note, paper and even paperclip. Also isn't rule of market capitalism, if I am the seller I can put any price in the product/service I own, if you do not like my price you do not hav…
As far as the seller determining the price, that’s true but the price they set is set on the basis that they aren’t lying about what they are selling you.
If someone sells you a pure gold box that turns out to just be aluminum wrapped in gold foil, that’s fraud even if you agreed to pay for the pure gold box. The seller did not provide the thing you agreed to pay for. It’s the same in this case, the seller allegedly lied about what they were selling to get HP to agree to an inflated price.
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#53Extradite the killer of Harry Dunn, Anne Sacoolas first.
I don't usually like being too political, but as a brit I came here to say the same. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56246511
I’m usually quite the Atlanticist but in matters of extradition I think we should simply tear up those agreements. What’s the justice in the US being able to extradite autistic teenagers who’ve never set foot on American soil at the behest of MPAA and RIAA human scum, yet we can’t extradite a literal killer?
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because they were fabricating sales numbers, channel stuffing, misreporting expenses...Autonomy was a fraud, the numbers weren't real, the CFO is already doing time.
But how people from HP they have not noticed fraud during due diligence process?
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#556 hours of cursory 'scrutiny' before they decided to blow £8bn on the acquisition... I wonder if the (now ex-) CEO would be interested in buying my house?
And what was the rest of the board doing when the CEO decoded to trample on due process to get the deal over the line in a hurry?
Cathie Lesjak, the HP CFO, never even read KPMG's preliminary DD report (https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/business/finance-strategy/hp...).
Interestingly, the KPMG report itself can be downloaded from the above site and I have given it a brief glance (thus surpassing Ms Lesjak's pre-purchase attention).
It is pretty clear from the caveats and predicating statements in the report (e.g. 'We make no representation for the sufficiency of your purposes of the procedures you selected, and those procedures will not necessarily disclose all significant matters about Target or reveal errors in the underlying information, instances of fraud, or illegal acts, if any.') that KPMG was saying 'Look, bud - you hired us in a very limited capacity, knowing the data was bad: the consequences of this going belly-up are gonna be your problem, not ours'. To be fair, this is probably par for the course in many transactions.
What is interesting is that the report does look at revenue recognition, which is supposedly a major contributor to the eventual SNAFU (out by 38%!!! - see https://www.itpro.com/strategy/24554/hp-says-autonomy-revenu...).
Page 26 even says 'We understand that your auditors may provide a grace period post acquisition to perform a more rigorous analysis using the industry accepted calculation methodology.' (Did they do this?)
HP was determined to buy without looking under the hood because it was afraid it would be pipped to the post by Oracle.
Subsequently, the Serious Fraud Office dropped an investigation against Lynch and Hussain (CFO) because of insufficient evidence.
38% is material enough to not just be a 'to-mah-toe / to-may-toe' difference of opinion, so maybe there are grounds for a further grilling of Mr Lynch.
However, given the clear incompetence of HP's board and the shoddy DD they did, and the fact that the SFO could not find grounds to pursue the case, I would have thought that handing over a UK citizen to the US when he was at the time of the deal managing a UK co listed on the London Stock Exchange seems to indicate undue pressure has been brought to bear on the junior partner in the 'special relationship'.
I won't have much sympathy for either the incompetent or the shady (if this is the case) if they wind up in a relationship that has gotten messy, but this does not reflect well on the extradition reciprocity of US and UK.
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Many people die within months of being sent there. I take your overall point, but here in the US police just execute people on the streets and then face no consequences for doing so. I continue to think the comparison fits.
No. Trying to say they're somehow equivalent is whataboutism, it's insulting to the US and demeaning to survivors of North Korea. I know the US is not perfect, but you can't just go saying it's like North Korea.
Which is another name for "putting things in perspective" and "addressing all bad actors, not singling out one for the benefit of the other".
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#57The Due Diligence HP did on Autonomy sounds like an absolute shambles if this article is anything to go by: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/28/hewlett-pac... 6 hours of cursory 'scrutiny' before they decided to blow £8bn on the acquisition... I wonder if the (now ex-) CEO would be interested in buying my house? And what was the rest of the board doing when the CEO decoded to trample on due process to ge…
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#58> Artificially inflated Can someone please explain why is this company any different than any US company? In my eyes they are all artificially inflated. I love Tesla for instance but please P/E ratio of 654.03 isn't that the same thing? (it is genuine question)
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK but how is that possible? Before you sell a company there is a long due diligence process, where all papers and everything else is given to inspection, and I can imagine team of 10 people lawyers accountants and experts going to every, note, paper and even paperclip. Also isn't rule of market capitalism, if I am the seller I can put any price in the product/service I own, if you do not like my price you do not hav…
The short answer is that HP didn’t identify the fraud when they did their due diligence. Just because you look at a businesses financials doesn’t mean you’ll identify fraud they are trying to hide. As far as the seller determining the price, that’s true but the price they set is set on the basis that they aren’t lying about what they are selling you. If someone sells you a pure gold box that turns out to just be alum…
Personally, I think it is impossible HP has not seen something like that, or they have sent complete idiots to do due diligence.
Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US
#60> But Dr Lynch has argued that HP used the allegations to cover up its own mismanagement of Autonomy after the 2011 deal. I have no comment to make on Mike Lynch's guilt or innocence in this matter, because I simply don't know enough about him or about Autonomy (despite working in an office just across the road for 3 years leading up to the sale)[0], but tough to argue that HP wasn't mismanaged during this period, an…
> tough to argue that HP wasn't mismanaged during this period, and therefore tough to assert that this mismanagement wouldn't have extended to Autonomy How is this relevant? If you get sold a computer, are delivered a turtle, and then kill it because you forgot to feed it, it can simultaneously be true that you were (a) incompetent and (b) defrauded.
If the actions weren't criminal, but instead the result of a CEO/company not using accounting best practices/pushing too aggressively then HP may not have a civil or criminal case.
The time that Microsoft failed to acquire Skype's IP comes to mind.