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Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

bbc.com

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Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#11

Post by bartread »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9
bartread wrote: post #8

> But Dr Lynch has argued that HP used the allegations to cover up its own mismanagement of Autonomy after the 2011 deal. I have no comment to make on Mike Lynch's guilt or innocence in this matter, because I simply don't know enough about him or about Autonomy (despite working in an office just across the road for 3 years leading up to the sale)[0], but tough to argue that HP wasn't mismanaged during this period, an…

> tough to argue that HP wasn't mismanaged during this period, and therefore tough to assert that this mismanagement wouldn't have extended to Autonomy How is this relevant? If you get sold a computer, are delivered a turtle, and then kill it because you forgot to feed it, it can simultaneously be true that you were (a) incompetent and (b) defrauded.

It's relevant to HP and their shareholders, and it's relevant because there is an ongoing civil case in the UK, which makes this situation on criminal charges in the US more interesting and unusual, and finally it's foundational to Mike Lynch's argument with HP[0].

It's entirely possible that we might see different outcomes in these cases. Maybe a difference in outcome between civil and criminal cases is a more common occurrence than I'm aware of (certainly O. J. Simpson springs to mind), but it seems unusual to me, and especially across international boundaries.

[0] Again, I haven't followed these goings on that carefully, but my impression is he's hewn pretty closely to this line of argument throughout.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#12

Post by colinmhayes »

dathinab wrote: post #6

As far as I can tell US prisons (in generally, not necessary all but I think most) are basically a heap of human right violations. In that context I think extraditing anyone to the US should be treated as a human right violation and as such should not be done. And even if we ignore their prisons from a German Law POV a lot of their law is fundamentally in conflict with the values represented by the constitution and m…

Generally the federal prisons are better than state ones. They still have solitary though so there are definitely major issues.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#13

Post by zerocrates »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9
bartread wrote: post #8

> But Dr Lynch has argued that HP used the allegations to cover up its own mismanagement of Autonomy after the 2011 deal. I have no comment to make on Mike Lynch's guilt or innocence in this matter, because I simply don't know enough about him or about Autonomy (despite working in an office just across the road for 3 years leading up to the sale)[0], but tough to argue that HP wasn't mismanaged during this period, an…

> tough to argue that HP wasn't mismanaged during this period, and therefore tough to assert that this mismanagement wouldn't have extended to Autonomy How is this relevant? If you get sold a computer, are delivered a turtle, and then kill it because you forgot to feed it, it can simultaneously be true that you were (a) incompetent and (b) defrauded.

I also have no real knowledge about the situation, but it's also plausible for the two to be related: that is, you were easy to defraud because of your incompetence. Which of course doesn't make the perpetrator any less culpable.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#14

Post by minikites »

dathinab wrote: post #6

As far as I can tell US prisons (in generally, not necessary all but I think most) are basically a heap of human right violations. In that context I think extraditing anyone to the US should be treated as a human right violation and as such should not be done. And even if we ignore their prisons from a German Law POV a lot of their law is fundamentally in conflict with the values represented by the constitution and m…

People harp on China or North Korea being police states but the United States incarcerates more people per capita than any other nation by a significant margin. The US justice system is rife with discrimination and the prison conditions are dire (as you point out). People should absolutely not be extradited to the USA until this changes.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#15

Post by bryanrasmussen »

colinmhayes wrote: post #12
dathinab wrote: post #6

As far as I can tell US prisons (in generally, not necessary all but I think most) are basically a heap of human right violations. In that context I think extraditing anyone to the US should be treated as a human right violation and as such should not be done. And even if we ignore their prisons from a German Law POV a lot of their law is fundamentally in conflict with the values represented by the constitution and m…

Generally the federal prisons are better than state ones. They still have solitary though so there are definitely major issues.

If a country does not obey human rights charters I don't think we'll send you to one of our good prisons really works, because that a prison is good is just a happenstance and there is no legal reason why it should continue to be good.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#16

Post by OJFord »

LatteLazy wrote: post #2

Frankly I don't think anyone should be extradited to the USA. I just have zero confidence in the US legal system. Prosecutions seem politically motivated. Punishments are unreasonably harsh (I suspect to drive plea deals over actual trials). The quality of your defence depends entirely on how much you have to spend. And there seems to be a weird bias making prosecution and conviction of foreigners more likely for no…

> extradition agreement with the US seems filled with its own issues (extradition requires no evidence and doesn't seem to allow the usual defences)

Is that bad or unusual? It's no different than being required to appear in court in your own country 'without evidence' really is it?

IANAL but AIUI extradition just means one country will uphold the other's standard of compelling you to appear in its court.

(resp. also serving sentence if tried in absentia.)

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#18

Post by vizzier »

dathinab wrote: post #6

As far as I can tell US prisons (in generally, not necessary all but I think most) are basically a heap of human right violations. In that context I think extraditing anyone to the US should be treated as a human right violation and as such should not be done. And even if we ignore their prisons from a German Law POV a lot of their law is fundamentally in conflict with the values represented by the constitution and m…

I'm not sure that UK prisons are a huge amount higher in quality having read news reports about them. Though state controlled they're far from being the nordic model of rehabilitation.

That said, a similar argument does prevent the UK from extraditing anyone accused of a capital crime due to the death penalty being banned in the UK.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#20

Post by mc32 »

minikites wrote: post #14
dathinab wrote: post #6

As far as I can tell US prisons (in generally, not necessary all but I think most) are basically a heap of human right violations. In that context I think extraditing anyone to the US should be treated as a human right violation and as such should not be done. And even if we ignore their prisons from a German Law POV a lot of their law is fundamentally in conflict with the values represented by the constitution and m…

People harp on China or North Korea being police states but the United States incarcerates more people per capita than any other nation by a significant margin. The US justice system is rife with discrimination and the prison conditions are dire (as you point out). People should absolutely not be extradited to the USA until this changes.

We do incarcerate a lot, however, keep in mind some of it has to do with the dismantling of the equally problematic mental health institutions beginning in the late sixties.

Lots of people who would better be served in psychiatric units are housed in regular prisons.

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