A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech • Hacker News Board

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#401

Post by tk75x » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

dogorman wrote: post #205

nemo44x wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Everything must be examined critically through the lenses of social justice. Chess is a Eurocentric and thus colonial game only valued because of its expression of whiteness. Dominance of an opponent of another color reenforces normative racism and the white pieces going first internalizes white supremacy to Black, brown, and indigenous peoples. I won’t even go into the obvious sexism and misogyny of the emotiona…

Obviously your comment is sarcastic, but this is worth correcting: Chess is a Eurocentric Chess came from Persia, or maybe India, and spread both east and west along the silk road trade routes.

That part makes the comment even better, IMO. It paints the speaker as someone ignorant enough not only to go after the black/white convention in chess but also as not knowing the origins or details of the issue at hand(which is usually the case when people are virtue signalling).

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#402

Post by commandlinefan » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

zarzavat wrote: post #113

SilverRed wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would save so much time wasting. When someone says "Can you push that to the master branch" there is nothing that ties that statement to slavery or racism so there is nothing wrong with it.

The best thing to do is to ignore these people, they will never be happy so there's no point trying to please them. If you ignore someone who is never happy then in time they may respect you, but if you always comply then they will never respect you and their perceived power over you simply increases, which means they feel empowered to ask for more and more.

> ignore these people

Unfortunately for the rest of us, they've been put in charge.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#403

Post by babesh » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

YouTube overall generates tremendous value for people who view videos on it.

There are so many YouTube videos being generated for the amount of money being made that it is not economically feasible to hire humans to review all the videos.

Even if there is a human to review videos that have been flagged, there is a time delay to doing so.

YouTube seems to be erring on the side of flagging false positives at least till there is time for human review.

The technology reviewing videos is immature. It may not be an engineering failing. It may be a problem that requires a scientific breakthrough.

So a valid critique is that there is no effective way to reach a human at Google. Critiquing the technology is pointless.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#404

Post by hackerrrnews » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #398

l33t2328 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not dismissing systemic racism, they’re mocking some radical proposed “solutions”.

Well, just for the record, I'm dismissing it too - "systemic" racism is completely imaginary.

Definitely! It's completely imaginary to those it doesn't affect.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#405

Post by franhield » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

This tells us that their AI and algorithm should be improve as a lot of people are interacting with one another in the comment section.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#406

Post by Clubber » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

yoz-y wrote: post #263

Clubber wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yelling fire in a movie theater is perfectly legal and protected speech, even if false. It's only illegal if what is said is "likely to incite imminent lawless action," like a riot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the... It's funny, this is often presented as a supporting example to limit citizens' free speech or other rights, typically paired with something along the lines of, "no freedom is…

Surely though if you cause panic and people get trampled you would face consequences no? You probably won’t get accused of hate speech but I hope it could go up to manslaughter.

Do you think that the people who panic would bear some responsibility? If someone yelled fire in a movie theater that I was attending, I would at least look around and smell for it before I started flipping out trampling people.

Let's use another hypothetical just for fun. Let's say I called someone a bad name and they punched me, would I bear the legal responsibility for their lack of self control? I would think not. I would think the person who threw the punch would be charged for assault and I would be charged with nothing. If that's the case, how would that be different from the fire example? Someone spoke and someone reacted with no self control. I would think the person who reacted with no self control would bear at least some responsibility.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#407

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #199

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

No. What we need is something that is amazingly simple: * you, a programmer who coded something that caused company X to lose Y dollars because of a "mistake", have to be on a hook for Y dollars. * you, a manager who managed a project that caused a company X to lose Y dollars because of a "mistake" by your programmer, have to be on a hook for Y dollars. * you, a product owner who accepted the what the manager of ta p…

Some companies actually try to do that. They are mostly not the best ones, have liquidity problems and incompetent management.

You would have to pay CEO salaries since the responsibility lies on developers.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#408

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #335

shp0ngle wrote: post #5

Well. The speech police started changing "blacklist" and "whitelist" in programming context, even when those had no racist history; maybe it's time to change it in chess. (After all, white always goes first, that is not very PC.) Rename "black" and "white" to "second player" and "first player".

We should recolor the pieces with neutral colors such as #d3e6fa (because green and yellow have connotations). And remove the obviously sexist Queen (why stronger than King?) and King (why should it decide when the game is over?). Rook is shady as well. And so on. As Aristotle said: "once we look close enough, we will find someone offended".

What connotation does green have? Where can I find the land of green people?

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#409

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #28

What a fine mess we've created. - Popular experiences tend to be better experiences, so we all congregate to the same services - Homogenous user behavior leads to monopolistic situations, increasing outrage when anything goes wrong - Even if the government doesn't try to enforce moderation, the company attempts to self-moderate to maintain its image - The popularity of the service makes human moderation impossible, c…

Some communities seem to be immune to this. Mostly smaller ones of course. Some even use language that would immediately net you a twitter ban and they are still much friendlier than most popular hashtags.

It was always assumed that unnecessarily vulgar language leads to escalation and in some cases that is certainly true. But the internet netted some evidence that this isn't a general rule. One the contrary, ambitions to sanitize speech can make communities extremely toxic.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#410

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #6

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone makes the argument that this automated flagging is an indicator that chess's language is inadvertently racially charged. And think about the concept of "white goes first." All it takes is a few viral tweets, and suddenly the game of chess is in the crosshairs.

Just state that white always starts wars and you might be fine.

This is technically appeasing racists though.