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A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

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Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#331

Post by convery »

blfr wrote: post #298
skohan wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The popularity of the service makes human moderation impossible, creating a need for inevitably-flawed robots That's true, but we might be able to improve things with a bit more human moderation. For instance facebook is insanely profitable. They could probably increase their staffing for moderation by a pretty decent multiple and still be very profitable. So the current state of moderation is not strictly a matter…

Then you have the problem of bias in human reviewers. I don't think you can solve the problem of censorship with just a few more hires.

In the past for a game-modding project we sort of opensourced reports. Users (meeting certain criteria) could visit a page and view 5 seconds of video and statistics of an alleged/detected cheater. Then select positive/negative/inconclusive. If (IIRC 5 users) had voted and the majority said positive/negative then a ban/unban would be issued. Because it was random reports and the usernames were hidden, there were no obvious bias.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#332

Post by OscarCunningham »

judge2020 wrote: post #140
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have cooler heads prevailed in this regard? “Progressive” Americans degendering Spanish by referring to Latino people as “Latinx” seems to be going as strong as ever, despite the protests of actual native Spanish speakers. In their haste to appear progressive, people who say “Latinx” are ironically engaging in linguistic colonialism, as it were.

Related: Referring to American Indians as 'Native Americans', which is often seen as over-inclusive by American Indians themselves since it implies you're talking about Natives to the entire North and South America. While not the worst thing, when you are specifically talking about the native tribes the United States pushed out and forcibly moved to reservations, the term 'Indian' is codified in law[0] and is what th…

This is a good point, but I'd also be interested in seeing the opinion of Americans with heritage from India, since using 'Indian' to refer to Native Americans might inconvenience them.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#333

Post by adminscoffee »

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

hashstag

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#334

Post by swalls »

schwartzworld wrote: post #326
dorkwood wrote: post #266

It's never been confirmed that the language of chess is the reason the channel was flagged. It's all speculation. A fishing channel being taken offline due to hate speech, for example, is a boring story. The same thing happening to a chess channel is much juicier due to the implication that an AI accidentally flagged the words "black" and "white" as racist. There are a lot of reasons to be outraged by that idea, but…

And then it blows up here because HN has a lot of people who are disproportionately upset about default branches being called "main" instead of "master".

The amount of slippery slope argument and strawmanning on HN when it comes to topics like this is pretty embarrassingly Daily Mail-ish.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#335

Post by BrandoElFollito »

shp0ngle wrote: post #5

Well. The speech police started changing "blacklist" and "whitelist" in programming context, even when those had no racist history; maybe it's time to change it in chess. (After all, white always goes first, that is not very PC.) Rename "black" and "white" to "second player" and "first player".

We should recolor the pieces with neutral colors such as #d3e6fa (because green and yellow have connotations).

And remove the obviously sexist Queen (why stronger than King?) and King (why should it decide when the game is over?).

Rook is shady as well.

And so on. As Aristotle said: "once we look close enough, we will find someone offended".

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#336

Post by Mordisquitos »

mc32 wrote: post #20
dogorman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure chess board manufacturers would love this. Think of how many new sets they could sell if everybody decided they had to replace their old black and white sets.

Eh, many wooden sets are light and dark woods. Also many checkers boards are red and black. It’s still ridiculous -like cultural revolution level ridiculous. At least nature will never change and nights will be black and days will be light.

> Eh, many wooden sets are light and dark woods.

Ah, but one could argue that the colours of light and dark wood are closer to the skin colour of humans culturally classified as "white" and "black" than are the actual colours white and black!

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#337

Post by ctrlp »

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

"Totalitalgorithms" (Totalgorithms?) captures the spirit of these algorithms. They seem like bugs but they're actually undirected, organic features of a total technocratic political system that is rapidly coming to dominate life in our modern societies. The filters will be tuned but not fixed because they aren't broken. They're part of what Tocqueville described as 'soft despotism':

"Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_despotism

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#338

Post by himinlomax »

mleonhard wrote: post #238
hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

If a human made the same mistake, we would call them incompetent, careless, and negligent. - incompetent system - incompetent robot - incompesys - incompebot - inept system - inept robot - inepsys - ineptobot - inepobot - bunglebot - hambot - sloppybot - careless system - careless robot - carelessys - carelessbot - neglisys - negligent robot - neglibot I like 'neglibot'. "YouTube neglibotted my video." "This is my ne…

Artificial Idiocy

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#339

Post by BoxOfRain »

hutzlibu wrote: post #249
mellosouls wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite the same situation, but "Malgorithms" is used by Private Eye (British satirical/political magazine) to highlight adverts auto-generated inappropriately to accompany articles on news etc websites. Example: https://twitter.com/joshspero/status/562625460732174336

Of all the suggestions, I like the "Malgorithms" the most. It is catchy, easy to read and probably understandable by normal people as well.

Yeah, it's definitely the most sellable one I've seen.

I don't like the implication that it's the algorithm that's malicious rather than the person who wrote the algorithm (no algorithm is inherently malevolent or benevolent in my opinion, it's just an algorithm), but I also know this distinction is completely pointless for the vast majority of people and "malgorithm" gets the gist of what people are getting at across very well.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#340

Post by olalonde »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #184
mc32 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, many wooden sets are light and dark woods. Also many checkers boards are red and black. It’s still ridiculous -like cultural revolution level ridiculous. At least nature will never change and nights will be black and days will be light.

Until “they” force you to have eye implants that correct for this natural racism

Sounds like "The Giver":

> The Community lacks any color, memory, climate, or terrain, all in an effort to preserve structure, order, and a true sense of equality beyond personal individuality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giver

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