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The Colorado River is shrinking

sciencemag.org

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Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#101

Post by dylan604 »

eldaisfish wrote: post #72
krferriter wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We grow crops in the desert because there is so much sun there that the crops grow faster and to a higher consistent quality, and because there is much fewer pests that damage the plants.

If this is an argument, it is a very poor one and if this is a justification, it is entirely irrelevant. Deserts have ecosystems that are adapted to life with limited water. Trying to transplant a crop that evolved with plentiful water into an ecosystem with very little is a bad idea. Even worse is the capitalistic incentive to divert natural watercourse to farm in an arid region.

Downvotes because people can't handle the truth?

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#102

Post by [deleted] »

User23 wrote: post #24
fooey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Southern Utah, which is part of the Mojave Desert, the farmers still doing plain old flood irrigation. It's so staggeringly wasteful it's hard to understand

Are there good figures on how much of that water is “wasted” and how much ends up replenishing groundwater reservoirs? Utah isn’t that close to the Pacific so that water has a lot of opportunities to do something other than flow into the ocean.

[deleted]

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#103

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

anonAndOn wrote: post #47
ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

The US exports massive amounts of water in the form of hay and alfalfa.[0] This practice may not survive once the reservoirs completely dry out. [0] https://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/+symposium/proceedings/2019/Arti...

Chinese and other overseas investors own those US desert farms. They were attracted here by the massively generous water rights they get automagically.

ref: https://grist.org/agriculture/u-s-southwest-already-parched-...

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#104

Post by JshWright »

CountDrewku wrote: post #100
ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

>In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, You might as well just say people shouldn't be living in most of the western US then since a majority of it receives very little rainfall. It's very easy to call these people out when you're not directly affected. Yes just strip them of their major sources of income. No issue there.... You need a better plan than just telling the Governor…

Why should we subsidize the cost of them making money?

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#105

Post by ashtonkem »

treis wrote: post #89
kylecordes wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right... but if I understood the above, it's not the modern amenities using up the bulk of the water, it's the agriculture.

Because people don't really "use" water. When you flush the toilet or take a shower the water doesn't get destroyed. The vast majority of it gets treated and put back into the river. The water used in agriculture will mostly evaporate or become part of the plant. Little of it will make it back to the source.

People absolutely use water by this metric, but most of it goes to their lawn.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#106

Post by dylan604 »

woolcap wrote: post #71
fooey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Southern Utah, which is part of the Mojave Desert, the farmers still doing plain old flood irrigation. It's so staggeringly wasteful it's hard to understand

nit-pick, but only a tiny portion of Utah is in the Mojave desert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_Desert

While that may be accurate, it's still a lot of acerage that is specifically Mojave. At the same time, if I stand on the border of the Mojave in Utah, I'm still in a desert anywhere I go.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#107

Post by jedberg »

briga wrote: post #83
dleslie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawns and golf courses are a small fraction of use compared to farming.

Definitely, but highly wasteful nonetheless. Easier to tell someone to stop growing their lawn than telling a farmer to stop growing their crops

Is it? Farming represents 3% of California's GDP, but 40% of the water. If California decided to simply sell that water to other states and then give the money to the farmers in exchange for not farming, the farmers would probably come out ahead. It's also a lot easier to enforce than making sure people don't grow lawns.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#108

Post by Niglodonicus »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #19
avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

I don't think it's silly, it's honestly why my wife and I keep deciding to keep our family here in Ontario despite the rest of my family being out west. We keep talking about moving to British Columbia for lifestyle and social reasons (skiing, family, scenery, politics etc.) but every time I go out west to visit family in Alberta & BC there's forest fires, talk of drought, shrinking glaciers (that supply all drinking…

I mean, there's a lot of techno-optimists on this forum diligently huffing the hopium that the eventual (perhaps even imminent) collapse of our current systems will surely be subverted by some great breakthrough. Of course they're going to downvote any view that purports that this is highly unlikely.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#109

Post by t0mbstone »

simiones wrote: post #5
tomc1985 wrote: post #2

Maybe we need to look at cloud-seeding or other rainmaking solutions like the UAE is doing

Sure, let's ignore the simple solution - stop consuming so much water - and jump to a high-tech, unknown impact, expensive, complex, expensive solution. What could go wrong?

Stopping water consumption is an inadequate solution to our three biggest water supply problems:

1. Desalination

2. Purification

3. Distribution

There would be no shortage of fresh water on earth if we simply put resources into solving these three problems.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#110

Post by jdcaron »

jb775 wrote: post #44

This reminds me of how the glaciers were supposed to be gone by 2020[1]. [1] https://lidblog.com/national-park-service-glaciers/

Worldwide glaciers are shrinking: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/...

I don't know about your example or your source. When you refer to climate changes, you can't use one local sample as your proof.

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