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The Colorado River is shrinking

sciencemag.org

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Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#11

Post by toomuchtodo »

giantg2 wrote: post #8
simiones wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let's ignore the simple solution - stop consuming so much water - and jump to a high-tech, unknown impact, expensive, complex, expensive solution. What could go wrong?

"Sure, let's ignore the simple solution - stop consuming so much water" I agree that it's a demand-side issue, but the solutions are not "simple".

There are no solutions. Those who can will use what they can, those who can't will be left high and dry. This is expected when supply rapidly declines when demand remains constant or increases over time. The watershed will change faster than human behavior and policy will adapt.

There was already not enough water for the rights distributed in the 1922 Colorado River Compact [1]:

> The delegates figured allocations on hydrologic data from the Reclamation Bureau that indicated annual Colorado River flow at Lees Ferry to be 16.4 maf. In truth, however, Colorado River flow is a good deal less than that. Data from three centuries indicate an average flow of about 13.5 maf. Also, flows are highly erratic, ranging from 4.4 maf to over 22 maf.

> Built into the compact then, between what it promised and what the river was prepared to deliver, was water scarcity. There is not enough water to go around. As a result, water scarcity is the root of most of the disputes and problems subsequently arising over the compact and the Law of the River. It is a situation that links past and present Colorado River issues and will be an abiding concern in the future.

EDIT: You personally can make the choice to not live somewhere that will eventually face water scarcity [2].

[1] https://wrrc.arizona.edu/publications/arroyo-newsletter/shar... ("Sharing Colorado River Water: History, Public Policy and the Colorado River Compact")

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20210721173013/https://i.imgur.c...

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#12

Post by avgDev »

kibwen wrote: post #9
avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

> There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered due to shortages. An argument for moving to Florida or Louisiana, where the water will be delivered to your home for free in short order. Dark humor, but sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.

I love dark humor!

Honestly, I don't think we need to worry about global warming, Apple basically solved it by not including a charging brick with the iPhone12 and new watches! /s

This sums up how capitalism feels about global warming.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#13

Post by SamBam »

giantg2 wrote: post #8
simiones wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let's ignore the simple solution - stop consuming so much water - and jump to a high-tech, unknown impact, expensive, complex, expensive solution. What could go wrong?

"Sure, let's ignore the simple solution - stop consuming so much water" I agree that it's a demand-side issue, but the solutions are not "simple".

Large federal grants/subsidies to stimulate farming in the Northern states, coupled with a progressive/tiered taxes on using more than [edit] xx million gallons of water in places like California and Colorado?

...I could see how the residents of those latter states would not be too happy with that solution, though. But it's not like the Federal Government isn't already constantly picking favorites for subsidies (see ethanol, oil, etc.).

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#14

Post by rootusrootus »

SamBam wrote: post #13
giantg2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sure, let's ignore the simple solution - stop consuming so much water" I agree that it's a demand-side issue, but the solutions are not "simple".

Large federal grants/subsidies to stimulate farming in the Northern states, coupled with a progressive/tiered taxes on using more than [edit] xx million gallons of water in places like California and Colorado? ...I could see how the residents of those latter states would not be too happy with that solution, though. But it's not like the Federal Government isn't already constantly picking favorites for subsidies (see…

Why punish individuals for their water consumption? That's not exactly the low hanging fruit, the vast majority of water in California is used for farming.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#16

Post by mcot2 »

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

And Utah wants to build a pipeline to divert even more water.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#17

Post by KittenInABox »

tomc1985 wrote: post #2

Maybe we need to look at cloud-seeding or other rainmaking solutions like the UAE is doing

This means water will be taken away from other areas, unpredictably, we may not know where. Removing water from the atmosphere above Utah may have wide reaching national, if not international consequences.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#18

Post by fooey »

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

In Southern Utah, which is part of the Mojave Desert, the farmers still doing plain old flood irrigation.

It's so staggeringly wasteful it's hard to understand

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#19

Post by cmrdporcupine »

avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

I don't think it's silly, it's honestly why my wife and I keep deciding to keep our family here in Ontario despite the rest of my family being out west. We keep talking about moving to British Columbia for lifestyle and social reasons (skiing, family, scenery, politics etc.) but every time I go out west to visit family in Alberta & BC there's forest fires, talk of drought, shrinking glaciers (that supply all drinking and irrigation water to that whole half of the continent) and I come back thinking that the great lakes region is ideal, particularly here on the Canadian side: politically stable, lots of fresh water, arable land, few forest fires, etc.

For now, anyways.

EDIT: and yeah, amazing you're getting downvoted. I've been downvoted here for expressing the same sentiment before.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#20

Post by candiddevmike »

avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

Cheap fresh water will become the new oil. I wouldn't be surprised if the ridiculous idea of pumping Lake Michigan to NV/CA comes to fruition.
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