The Colorado River is shrinking • Hacker News Board

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#51

Post by kortilla » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

> There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered by trucks due to shortages. At some point it is going to be pointless to live there and housing market in those areas will collapse.

Why do you think that? They are clearly fine with the most expensive option already.

> Coastal areas will be flooded due to increasing sea levels.

No, some coastal areas will have problems with this where the inland has very little elevation gain (e.g. Florida). A house in the South Bay Area alternatively has a lower flood risk than anything near the Great Lakes (just because of the precipitation received on the eastern half of the US).

> Places with little to no rain will experience more extreme fires(happening now).

Some will. It depends on the ecology. Many of these places on fire have fire as part of biological cycle (I.e. the California forests) so if you weren’t ready for that risk you were screwed regardless of climate change.

> I'm sure Midwest will also experience more severe weather but you can make it work, living under water or without water is impossible.

And neither of those things will be feasible outcomes for those of us in the West.

Unless you’re a farmer, living near the Great Lakes for water security is pretty stupid. You have a higher chance of being killed by a tornado or a lightning strike than there being a water shortage that makes the west unlivable.

Israel desalinates ocean water and a fuckload of people still live there.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#52

Post by jszymborski » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

krferriter wrote: post #41

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

We grow crops in the desert because there is so much sun there that the crops grow faster and to a higher consistent quality, and because there is much fewer pests that damage the plants.

Right, but crop selection and farming practices matter.

Replace water-intensive crop with something more appropriate.

Replace flood irrigation with something like aquaponics which is leagues more water efficient.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#53

Post by dleslie » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #19

avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

I don't think it's silly, it's honestly why my wife and I keep deciding to keep our family here in Ontario despite the rest of my family being out west. We keep talking about moving to British Columbia for lifestyle and social reasons (skiing, family, scenery, politics etc.) but every time I go out west to visit family in Alberta & BC there's forest fires, talk of drought, shrinking glaciers (that supply all drinking…

BC has no lack of water; it rains _heavily_ most of the year along the coast.

What BC lacks is a water storage plan; as you've mentioned, our glaciers and snow pack are no longer reliable.

And there's the impact from less water in rivers and streams to consider, and how that will effect the ecology.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#54

Post by Koshkin » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

briga wrote: post #29

Just like we fight deforestation by planting trees maybe we should fight drought by re-watering our land. It's a massive logistical problem, to be sure, but it seems like humans already have a pretty good handle on draining water from the land. They could start by banning lawns and golf courses in the desert. No reason someone living in Phoenix needs a verdant green lawn. Maybe place some limits on unsustainable agri…

But "Muh house!"

https://kinder.rice.edu/sites/default/files/files/2017/08/Sc...

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#55

Post by kylecordes » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

JohnWhigham wrote: post #28

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

Expecting all the modern amenities of life while living in the desert is just pure arrogance. I seriously don't know why governments subsidize it.

You are right... but if I understood the above, it's not the modern amenities using up the bulk of the water, it's the agriculture.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#56

Post by D13Fd » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #36

User23 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there good figures on how much of that water is “wasted” and how much ends up replenishing groundwater reservoirs? Utah isn’t that close to the Pacific so that water has a lot of opportunities to do something other than flow into the ocean.

Virtually all agricultural irrigation evaporates. It doesn't even run off into local streams (which you can verify by, heh, the lack of local streams in the Utah desert), much less seep into the ground. Underground aquifers fill over decades and centuries, and in this environment, almost always laterally, not from seepage from rainfall. I think the demand for proof needs to go the other way, honestly. Presumptively t…

I think the question is how much less water would be used with a modern irrigation system rather than flood irrigation.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#57

Post by spamizbad » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #43

The choice is pretty clear to me. We need a national water grid. Desalinization is great and a piece of the puzzle, but we need a way to distribute water across the country. It could also be leveraged as an energy storage device if we continue to add more reservoirs at various elevations. It's not going to be cheap or easy, but we'd be stupid not to start on it now. The climate changes, and we need to plan for it. Pl…

Good luck getting the Great Lakes Compact broken up.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#58

Post by PragmaticPulp » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

JohnWhigham wrote: post #28

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

Expecting all the modern amenities of life while living in the desert is just pure arrogance. I seriously don't know why governments subsidize it.

According to the stats above, modern amenities of life aren't the main consumer of the water:

> 82% of Utah water goes to farmers.

In 2021, we don't need to grow Alfalfa in the desert. Especially not when it's being exported out of state anyway.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#59

Post by autokad » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #43

The choice is pretty clear to me. We need a national water grid. Desalinization is great and a piece of the puzzle, but we need a way to distribute water across the country. It could also be leveraged as an energy storage device if we continue to add more reservoirs at various elevations. It's not going to be cheap or easy, but we'd be stupid not to start on it now. The climate changes, and we need to plan for it. Pl…

seems like desalination parried with nuclear and solar power (because desalination is expensive electricity wise) is the solution. most of our problems comes down to energy, to which fusion power will one day solve. we just need some stop gaps.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#60

Post by cmrdporcupine » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #53

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's silly, it's honestly why my wife and I keep deciding to keep our family here in Ontario despite the rest of my family being out west. We keep talking about moving to British Columbia for lifestyle and social reasons (skiing, family, scenery, politics etc.) but every time I go out west to visit family in Alberta & BC there's forest fires, talk of drought, shrinking glaciers (that supply all drinking…

BC has no lack of water; it rains _heavily_ most of the year along the coast. What BC lacks is a water storage plan; as you've mentioned, our glaciers and snow pack are no longer reliable. And there's the impact from less water in rivers and streams to consider, and how that will effect the ecology.

There's really three different ecozones we're talking about here. Coastal, interior, and northern. Yes, there's lots of rain along the coast, but that doesn't help the interior. And it's pretty damned hard to build the infrastructure for rain storage on the scale we're talking about.

That said, the recent heat wave hit the coast pretty badly, too.