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U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

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Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#161

Post by hungryhobo »

apercu wrote: post #39
krageon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the US was angry with Russia everything was suddenly Russians. Now they're being difficult at China, and suddenly China is the country doing everything wrong. That anyone still takes them seriously is to my mind an incredible miracle.

Not suggesting at all that the USA is some benign superpower, but Russia is run by a criminal gang and China by a despot and a corrupt communist party. Note that I am a US citizen than expatriated after the second gulf war. So I am not a fan if the US gvmt, but if you think for a second that the Chinese and Russian governments AREN'T doing the things they are accused you are naive.

just curious, have you visited china before? or seen first hand what's it actually like? you seem to have a very strong opinion, yet i'm not sure if they are based on reality or not.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#162

Post by GordonS »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #144
GordonS wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the US worked to fabricate evidence in collaboration with the UK too. The UK had an expert produce the so called "dodgy dossier", that was used as Blair's justification to follow the US into their illegal war. The media called it out as obvious bullshit, then the guy that produced the report allegedly committed a timely suicide.

Source please.

I doubt you'll find a credible source - the security services are afterall very good at what they do. It's all circumstantial, but at the time you'd have been hard-pressed to find a single citizen who believed Kelly very conveniently killed himself at just the right time to prevent further damage to the government and their web of lies with the US.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#163

Post by refenestrator »

bradford wrote: post #138
sebiw wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." — Dick Cheney, before the US and coalition of the willing invaded Iraq.

I'd ask that we be more thoughtful on this and evaluate separate allegations on their own merits. Why do you think invoking Cheney's statement is relevant to this discussion? As an aside, I'm not sure what's more frustrating: Witnessing the Bush administration circa 2001-2004 be called out on these lies, by numerous entities, and still march inexorably toward armed conflict, or... having to witness these lies being u…

It's not about the specific allegations, it's about the posture and priorities of the security state.

A few years ago, we ran out of fear and urgency on the Islamic terror thing and now we need a new top dog bad guy.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#164

Post by tablespoon »

sudosysgen wrote: post #125
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and we should be willing to entertain skepticism of specific incidents when justified. The idea that there's no such thing as real attribution, that it's always fabricated based on political convenience, is just unproductive nihilism.

There is such a thing as real attribution. Just not from IPs and tools that are easily faked. You need more than that, and indeed there were many cases were we got more than that.

> There is such a thing as real attribution. Just not from IPs and tools that are easily faked. You need more than that, and indeed there were many cases were we got more than that.

And there are most likely a lot of cases where:

1) "...we got more than that," and...

2) ...data from "IPs and tools that are easily faked" is the only information that could be released publicly without compromising sources and methods.

It's a hopeless wish to want to be able to independently assess (as an amateur!) intelligence findings in all cases. If trusting the official assessments isn't acceptable (cross-checked with general knowledge of the situation), about the only reasonable alternative position is to remain agnostic.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#166

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

GordonS wrote: post #162
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source please.

I doubt you'll find a credible source - the security services are afterall very good at what they do. It's all circumstantial, but at the time you'd have been hard-pressed to find a single citizen who believed Kelly very conveniently killed himself at just the right time to prevent further damage to the government and their web of lies with the US.

That's shit though. That can be said of anything. Moon landings were faked but the CIA is very good at what they do.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#167

Post by stelonix »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #143
sebiw wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." — Dick Cheney, before the US and coalition of the willing invaded Iraq.

This is meaningless. You're saying that since we have gotten it wrong in the past it must be wrong this time? That's not how it works. Show me your superior intelligence that contradicts this.

No, he's saying since the USG used a lie in order to further its' interests and which caused more than 500k deaths, it should not be trusted when it says anything about any other adversary.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#168

Post by elefanten »

refenestrator wrote: post #163
bradford wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd ask that we be more thoughtful on this and evaluate separate allegations on their own merits. Why do you think invoking Cheney's statement is relevant to this discussion? As an aside, I'm not sure what's more frustrating: Witnessing the Bush administration circa 2001-2004 be called out on these lies, by numerous entities, and still march inexorably toward armed conflict, or... having to witness these lies being u…

It's not about the specific allegations, it's about the posture and priorities of the security state. A few years ago, we ran out of fear and urgency on the Islamic terror thing and now we need a new top dog bad guy.

So, in your view, is security simply not a problem? Is it all a giant lie to fund the security state?

If not, where do you draw the line between real/legitimate security concerns vs. the fake ones?

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#169

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

tablespoon wrote: post #150
bradford wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd ask that we be more thoughtful on this and evaluate separate allegations on their own merits. Why do you think invoking Cheney's statement is relevant to this discussion? As an aside, I'm not sure what's more frustrating: Witnessing the Bush administration circa 2001-2004 be called out on these lies, by numerous entities, and still march inexorably toward armed conflict, or... having to witness these lies being u…

>>> There is so much doubt in this comment section around the validity of the accusations. >>> We have a number of countries putting forward the knowledge they have mutually agreed upon. What is shared is known to a high degree of certainty. Any details that are questionable would not have been shared prematurely. >> "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." — Dick Ch…

It's not a question of getting something wrong. The Bush administration carried out a massive disinformation campaign to convince the public that Saddam had WMD - something they knew they had no good evidence for. Large parts of the media and most senior politicians in both major parties (including the current President of the US) went along with this disinformation campaign.

After that experience, I'll believe the US government only when they make all their evidence public, and even then, I'll be exceedingly skeptical.

Re: U.S. and key allies accuse China of Microsoft Exchange cyberattacks

#170

Post by tablespoon »

billyhoffman wrote: post #61
dmix wrote: post #21

> Following Microsoft’s original disclosure in early March 2021, the United States Government also identified other vulnerabilities in the Exchange Server software. > Rather than withholding them, the United States Government recognized that these vulnerabilities could pose systemic risk and the National Security Agency notified Microsoft to ensure patches were developed and released to the private sector. Finally th…

The challenge the NSA has is it possesses 2 separate missions that are often in direct conflict: secure the communications of the United States, and to collect, eavesdrop, and compromise the communications of other countries. The United States Atomic Energy Commission of the 1950s and 60s had the same problem. Their mission was to both regulate nuclear power as well as research and promote the widespread adoption of…

> I believe both missions of the NSA are important. However I believe it should be split into two agencies each Enthusiastically pursuing a single mission to the best of their abilities.

At least with cryptography, I'm not sure how practical that is. I'm not cryptographer, but my impression is that offense and defense both deeply inform each other in that space.

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