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I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

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Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#211

Post by labawi »

etempleton wrote: post #206
OldHand2018 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the ordinary. I grew up around a lot of steel mills in the middle of America. What happens is this: Demand increases rapidly but nobody expects it to last. So they go to the union and work out a deal for increased working hours at a higher salary. Everybody, and I re…

I would not say it is completely outside of the ordinary for factory work. It is an extreme, but forced over time is a pretty common problem in warehouses and factories in the US. Typically that comes with a 1.5X pay increase for overtime hours worked, but working 60-80 hours a week or more is physically and psychologically draining, especially when the factories and warehouses are not air conditioned and the tempera…

> 1.5x rate is costing them

1.5x of what base? Those people aren't working 80h because they like the pay. They need the money. Not necessarily all of it, but are dependent on the job. haven't had a pay raise in 10y.

It would be cheaper to hire more workers, if they could get any to work for the same pay. They likely can't, so it would be more expensive to raise the pay. As it is, in the short term, it could be dangerous to let people have time to think.

Conditions call for a strike. Don't know what took them so long.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#212

Post by knuthsat »

vasco wrote: post #32
knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

There's no "siesta" (a spanish word and custom) anywhere in Portugal, including Madeira. Businesses may close for an hour or so for lunch, but "siesta" is not a thing. Not sure why you picked that as an example out of any other work expectation in any country.

I was comparing hard working Madeira to other places with year long tourism.

There, for some reason, culturally, they decided to work really hard all year.

I was talking to a hard working cab driver and told him about seasonal tourism in Croatia (tourist season lasts about 5 months) and he couldn't believe me that for the rest of the year a bunch of people do not work at all.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#213

Post by GravitasFailure »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #201
GravitasFailure wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like Kansas overtime law kicks in at 46 hours in a week[0], so closer to $110k. Maybe a touch less since they probably shut down periodically for machine maintenance. Thing is, this sort of schedule turns into a weird form of neo-slavery. You don't have enough time to yourself to job hunt, even if something is even available, and you can't schedule an interview around your work. Saving money can be nigh impo…

That link directly contradicts you. Federal overtime starts at 40 hours per week. Your link specifically says: Whichever law (state or federal) is more favorable to the worker will apply. In most instances, federal law will cover issues involving overtime pay and minimum wage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtime#Federal_overtime_law

> Kansas state labor laws on overtime pay do not require overtime pay until an employee has worked 46 hours within a week. While this may apply in limited circumstances where an employer is not covered by the FLSA, generally the FLSA will apply and requires employers to pay time and a-half for all hours worked over 40 per workweek, unless an employee is properly classified as exempt.

Yeah, the 46 hour rule probably doesn't apply in this case, though who knows what sorts of shenanigans Lays is trying.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#214

Post by ntlk »

tolbish wrote: post #167
balfirevic wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thereafter, they are just paying and consuming to avoid headaches and reach the baseline. No, it is also for a great deal of enjoyment.

If that were true, everyone would be drinking decaf for the taste.

Decaf has a very different flavour profile.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#215

Post by Glawen »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #192
GuB-42 wrote: post #172

How is it legal? I live in France, I know we have more worker protection laws than most countries, but I expected at least some from all first world countries. Factory work is typically among the most regulated kind of work, and often unionized too. Things tend to be very clear: there is a boss, there is punch clock, it is not like software development where it is not clear when you are working and when you are not.…

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the ordinary. I grew up around a lot of steel mills in the middle of America. What happens is this: Demand increases rapidly but nobody expects it to last. So they go to the union and work out a deal for increased working hours at a higher salary. Everybody, and I re…

The same law has been passed in France where a union's deal can bypass the law (totally crazy idea to be honest). And these deals happen exactly like you described, except that workers are threatened by factory closure.

For example it happened for the Smart car factory, they accepted to work more hours for the same pay, with the promise to get investments. Well now the factory is closing and they are pissed off to have granted free work to their employer (mercedes Benz)

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#216

Post by tluyben2 »

peakaboo wrote: post #205
cj wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s these people I think about when reading the weekly threads here on developer burn out.

The only thing they have incommon is that they refuse to change their lives. They don't make use of their own capabilities to make changes. Specially the American culture has this idiotic thing where people are so afraid to called a failure or to be someone who quits. That's probably doing more damage than anything to yourselfs.

I am not sure that is true though. When I was really into 'becoming a big startup' etc, I was taking lessons from almost exclusively US founders. If things fail, go bankrupt and repeat was a main point. But I was in the EU and here (outside of the UK, at least as far as I have seen in practice) bankruptcy is a big taboo and you are judged by it. Instead of it being something you at least tried but failed, it is seen as a deep flaw over here and it can haunt you for a long time as bankruptcy information is public. Judges and lawyers here push you to keep going and avoid bankruptcy at all cost, but that seriously makes no sense in many cases which can be outside your control. My last one was 8 years ago: I pivoted and it has been good since then. After selling a company, I have to find something new and that seems to fail 1-3 times in short succession, not all with bankruptcy of course, and then a business picks up momentum.

I digress, but I think the US has a healthier attitude towards failure. Maybe I am wrong of course: I never lived there.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#217

Post by jounker »

clairity wrote: post #208
michaelmrose wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of there being no way its completely trivial. Furthermore you just said we have to choose between hard limits that will provably reduce exploitation and harm and handy wavy notions of dignity and equality with literally zero actual suggestions of any kind given. The people that are vulnerable to exploitation and harm are virtually always the lower paid individuals without options or stability. If you want to…

sorry, again, you're focusing on the wrong problem, and trying to implement arbitrary and strict controls to boot (which might work for computers, but not so much with humans). we already have overtime rules (and a number of the other provisions), and they don't change the equation in any meaningful way, as this very article elucidates. it's perhaps well-meaning, but it's plainly the wrong approach.

They’re not changing things in a meaningful way because of other decisions, such as letting letting minimum wage fall to an obscenely low level such that people have to work two jobs simply to survive.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#218

Post by Hokusai »

tluyben2 wrote: post #216
peakaboo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing they have incommon is that they refuse to change their lives. They don't make use of their own capabilities to make changes. Specially the American culture has this idiotic thing where people are so afraid to called a failure or to be someone who quits. That's probably doing more damage than anything to yourselfs.

I am not sure that is true though. When I was really into 'becoming a big startup' etc, I was taking lessons from almost exclusively US founders. If things fail, go bankrupt and repeat was a main point. But I was in the EU and here (outside of the UK, at least as far as I have seen in practice) bankruptcy is a big taboo and you are judged by it. Instead of it being something you at least tried but failed, it is seen…

> it is seen as a deep flaw over here and it can haunt you for a long time

When a company goes bankrupt it can bring down with it smaller providers and self employed workers. If you only lose venture capital, that is not so bad as it is part of the risk/reward. Why anyone would like to do business with an entrepreneur that uses bankruptcy to move on? I guess that in-advance payments could be a solution.

Bankruptcy is a last resort mechanism. It makes sense to let people move on when, without bad intention, they just failed a business. To make mistakes is human. But to abuse the privilege betting in high risk business and letting others pay for it seems immoral and not long-term sustainable for the economy.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#220

Post by mgh2 »

akudha wrote: post #16

Jeez! 59 year old guy with the same salary for the last 10 years. People working in 100 degree temperatures with no air conditioning. This is depressing to read :(

One word, greed: https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e
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