I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#201

Post by PhantomGremlin » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

GravitasFailure wrote: post #165

bko wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > After 37 years, I still get forced to work 12 hours a day, seven days a week... I make $20.50 [an hour] after 37 years here. Assuming they obey overtime laws, he's' making $112,996 a year ((40 * 20.5) + (44 * 1.5 * 20.5) * 52). I think that has something to do with it. There likely aren't any alternatives where someone with that skill set can make nearly double the median income for Topeka, Kansas…

It looks like Kansas overtime law kicks in at 46 hours in a week[0], so closer to $110k. Maybe a touch less since they probably shut down periodically for machine maintenance. Thing is, this sort of schedule turns into a weird form of neo-slavery. You don't have enough time to yourself to job hunt, even if something is even available, and you can't schedule an interview around your work. Saving money can be nigh impo…

That link directly contradicts you.

Federal overtime starts at 40 hours per week. Your link specifically says:

Whichever law (state or federal) is more favorable to the worker will apply. In most instances, federal law will cover issues involving overtime pay and minimum wage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtime#Federal_overtime_law

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#202

Post by MikeTheGreat » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 5:26 AM UTC

mmmBacon wrote: post #150

knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

Not everyone has the opportunities that many of us on HN have enjoyed. The HN crowd is insanely privileged. Don’t assume they have had the same access to opportunity that you did or they have the same talents you do. In my own life, I was one decision away from driving trucks in West Virginia. The decision at the time was not obvious and the path I took was much harder. It took 10 years to see light at the end of the…

Clearly you're using vague language to protect your privacy by obscuring the details but if you ever do decide to publicly post about this please let me know! The journey sounds fascinating (and harrowing!), and I'd be curious to read your blog post / memoir / watch the feature length movie made based on it.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#203

Post by PhantomGremlin » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #179

MattGaiser wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get the same security from investing the money taken from your paycheck in a diverse way. That is all the company is doing.

Correct. I have a 401(k) that I put my own money into and choose the funds I invest in. If I leave my job, I can take that money with me. Companies should auto enroll and fund employees 401(k)s, which most don't do now. But they should not require 40 years of employment to be eligible to receive ANY retirement funds. We've been talking about non-competes on HN lately. What could be more anti-competitive than having a…

But they should not require 40 years of employment to be eligible to receive ANY retirement funds.

I don't know how you got confused about this. In the USA pensions must vest at 100% after 3 to 7 years of work (depending on details). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Retirement_Income_Sec...

What's likely in this case is that the employee can't start drawing on his pension until he's 62 years old.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#204

Post by msrenee » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

OldHand2018 wrote: post #192

GuB-42 wrote: post #172

How is it legal? I live in France, I know we have more worker protection laws than most countries, but I expected at least some from all first world countries. Factory work is typically among the most regulated kind of work, and often unionized too. Things tend to be very clear: there is a boss, there is punch clock, it is not like software development where it is not clear when you are working and when you are not.…

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the ordinary. I grew up around a lot of steel mills in the middle of America. What happens is this: Demand increases rapidly but nobody expects it to last. So they go to the union and work out a deal for increased working hours at a higher salary. Everybody, and I re…

Is it out of the ordinary? We're working minimum 50 hours a week and being told that it's only out of the goodness of the supervisor's heart that we've got any time off. Even at above-average pay for the area, they can't get new bodies in the door and experienced workers are leaving. It's been the same story everywhere I've worked. I'm sticking at this company because the pay is good, but I've been on overtime since shortly after I started here and this is the slow season right now.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#205

Post by peakaboo » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 6:06 AM UTC

cj wrote: post #128

akudha wrote: post #16

Jeez! 59 year old guy with the same salary for the last 10 years. People working in 100 degree temperatures with no air conditioning. This is depressing to read :(

It’s these people I think about when reading the weekly threads here on developer burn out.

The only thing they have incommon is that they refuse to change their lives. They don't make use of their own capabilities to make changes.

Specially the American culture has this idiotic thing where people are so afraid to called a failure or to be someone who quits. That's probably doing more damage than anything to yourselfs.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#206

Post by etempleton » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

OldHand2018 wrote: post #192

GuB-42 wrote: post #172

How is it legal? I live in France, I know we have more worker protection laws than most countries, but I expected at least some from all first world countries. Factory work is typically among the most regulated kind of work, and often unionized too. Things tend to be very clear: there is a boss, there is punch clock, it is not like software development where it is not clear when you are working and when you are not.…

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the ordinary. I grew up around a lot of steel mills in the middle of America. What happens is this: Demand increases rapidly but nobody expects it to last. So they go to the union and work out a deal for increased working hours at a higher salary. Everybody, and I re…

I would not say it is completely outside of the ordinary for factory work. It is an extreme, but forced over time is a pretty common problem in warehouses and factories in the US. Typically that comes with a 1.5X pay increase for overtime hours worked, but working 60-80 hours a week or more is physically and psychologically draining, especially when the factories and warehouses are not air conditioned and the temperature inside hits 100-120 degrees during the summer.

Employees tolerate it because it can double their annual salary buying a better life for their families. It just comes at a huge personal cost.

In this specific instance the 80 hour work weeks are simply not sustainable and I have to imagine that management will want to end the practice as soon as possible. I did not see mention of 1.5X pay in the article, but unless Kansas has very lax labor laws that would be the norm. If 80 hour work weeks are common it is costing them to not hire new workers.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#207

Post by etempleton » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 6:25 AM UTC

knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

Factories like this are typically “unskilled labor” and there are few options in any given job market for unskilled laborers that pay this good. For Topeka Kansas w/ all of this forced over time the individual featured has moved himself into upper middle class income range.

I have met a number of parents who give up their personal lives and well being workingto provide their children the best lives possible, so that their children never have to work night shift or over time in a factory to provide a decent life for their families. It is a sacrifice.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#208

Post by clairity » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 6:57 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #160

clairity wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as nice as that utopia would be, the fundamental flaw with trying to limit working days/hours is that some people will still pour their whole lives into work, which creates an iterated game that pushes the equilibrium for everyone toward working more. there's no practical way to mitigate this powerful, arguably inate, incentive. the other option is actively coercing a daily/weekly work limit, and that not only severe…

Instead of there being no way its completely trivial. Furthermore you just said we have to choose between hard limits that will provably reduce exploitation and harm and handy wavy notions of dignity and equality with literally zero actual suggestions of any kind given. The people that are vulnerable to exploitation and harm are virtually always the lower paid individuals without options or stability. If you want to…

sorry, again, you're focusing on the wrong problem, and trying to implement arbitrary and strict controls to boot (which might work for computers, but not so much with humans). we already have overtime rules (and a number of the other provisions), and they don't change the equation in any meaningful way, as this very article elucidates. it's perhaps well-meaning, but it's plainly the wrong approach.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#209

Post by pauljurczak » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

etempleton wrote: post #206

OldHand2018 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the ordinary. I grew up around a lot of steel mills in the middle of America. What happens is this: Demand increases rapidly but nobody expects it to last. So they go to the union and work out a deal for increased working hours at a higher salary. Everybody, and I re…

I would not say it is completely outside of the ordinary for factory work. It is an extreme, but forced over time is a pretty common problem in warehouses and factories in the US. Typically that comes with a 1.5X pay increase for overtime hours worked, but working 60-80 hours a week or more is physically and psychologically draining, especially when the factories and warehouses are not air conditioned and the tempera…

> unless Kansas has very lax labor laws

Kansas does have lax labor laws. I went to check and according to https://www.dol.ks.gov/laws-faqs:

"State law says that overtime is due once an employee has worked 46 hours within a week. Federal law says that overtime is due once an employee has worked 40 hours within a week."

So it is substandard, and this:

"Breaks are not required under state or federal law."

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#210

Post by pauljurczak » Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 7:27 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #4

knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

Factories aren’t generally in cities. In a rural town, your job choices may be work at Walmart, one of two factories, or on a farm. The “hard” factory job may be the “best” bet among the choices. The bigger question is usually why don’t people move from a rural location? And the answer is usually “it’s complicated “. Old parents to take care of. It’s familiar. Friends. Maybe own your simple home. Maybe your church is…

Maybe you can't afford a house in suburbia...