Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have indeed been accused when I didn't agree with the objective harm caused. Thankfully, I typically didn't further escalate the situation and act like a jerk by denying their perception of the issue. Just because you don't immediately mount a fiery defense doesn't mean that you own their position, their feelings, or have to agree with them. This is emotional intelligence 101. Typically a quiet, non-escalated discu…
> narrow definition of conscious, machiavellian attempts to dispute concrete facts My understanding of gaslighting is that it was never about disputing concrete facts; it was about controlling the person by making them doubt their sanity. We already have a word for conscious Machiavellian attempts to dispute concrete facts: "lying."
A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
421–430 of 727 posts
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
In therapy circles and attachment theory land, this is exactly what's supposed to happen when you receive "good enough parenting". Good enough parenting means your parents actually tried and either worked through any of their issues preventing them from giving care to their children, or didn't have those issues in the first place. So the idea goes, you end up developing a relationship based on mutual respect, love, a…
> "Lots of people are massively fucked up and still have kids anyway, either accidentally or otherwise. And then their kids are put at a massive disadvantage in life and in human relationships." This is an interesting one, and in direct contradiction to the adage: "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” My life experience agrees, tough…
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#423We're all living that Asian family joke. Parents spend their whole lives waiting for their kids to thank you. Kids spend their whole lives waiting for their parent to say "I'm sorry." That said I've never felt that way about my Mom and Dad. I've faults and problems a plenty but I wouldn't ascribe any of that on them; indeed the best things about me seem to clearly come from them and the worst are just as clearly thin…
Yes, but for many of us in the West, without the tradition common to East and South Asians of reciprocal obligation. This used to be nigh unto a human universal: your parents raise you up from a helpless infant to adulthood, and this obliges you to love and care for them for the rest of their lives. I'm as deracinated Westerner as it comes, and yet I'm fairly traditional in this regard. I can think of three acceptabl…
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#424It's exhausting. I'm a co-founder and CEO, I have dozens of spinning plates to manage and keep track of most all the time. I'm also the father of two young children that I adore. Those are the things I decide to spend my energy on. What's fueling my estrangement is that I intentionally decide the kinds of BS that I'm willing to subject myself to, and the kind of curated insanity that tends to originate from my larger family doesn't make the cut.
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#425I will try not to complain about my parents, but one of the big side-effects is that I do not want kids and have had a vasectomy to prevent that. Not the only reason, but a relevant one. I think more people should choose not to have kids and our societies/governments should stop pushing so hard to have more due to traditional values or so economies can grow. It is time for us to focus on quality and not quantity. I t…
>I think more people should choose not to have kids and our societies/governments should stop pushing so hard to have more due to traditional values or so economies can grow. If your retirement plan is point blank shotgun than this is sustainable. Otherwise pray for automation, depending on how old you are, it might work out.
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#426Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#427Yet I see none of these things in her today. Every time I call its a pity party about all the wrongdoings done to her either by people or life. I know at some point I am going to have to support her, despite working most of her life and getting a sizable divorce settlement, I am not sure she has any significant nest egg saved. Quite frankly her brain seems to be rotting as she has few friends, hobbies or outlets in general and spends most of her energy getting involved in the near constant squabbles my extended family likes to get themselves into with each other.
On a more generic level though, I read a lot on the internet (well reddit really) about parents falling into Qanon, or even just being slightly cultist Trumpers, or crazy religious, and they just can't deal with them or identify with them at all. Then there is also the resentment of them being out of touch and being critical that they can't buy a house at 23, are having trouble finding a job, or aren't married and having kids, etc... completely oblivious to how much harder it is to do the things they did at their age today.
I do the minimum to keep in touch and literally have to mentally prepare myself each time I call or visit, because I just find the conversation immensely unpleasant. Its not "toxic" but the constant negativity is very draining. Maybe I am just an outlier here, but with 48% of the nation or whatever it is going out and voting red, and it appears that the younger generation having mostly opposing views, the disconnect might be more that they are just avoiding their parents- actively "losing" touch, rather than merely misplacing it.
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#428Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#429I am seeing a lot of resentment in this thread. My best guess is that some of it is deserved and some of it isn't. Something that this thread reminded me of is the fact that several of my friends (millenial like myself) think that bringing children into this world is a bad thing to do- with global warming and other social problems making it so that this choice is just going to cause more suffering. I wasn't too surpr…
>When the millenial zeitgeist has drifted in a direction where this is a common opinion, I take it to indicate that our socialization has taught some of us that humans have little inherent moral worth as individuals, the values of a family are subservient to the values of globalism You lost me a little there. How does not wanting kids makes you think that our socialization has taught some of us that humans have littl…
Doesn't not wanting kids for X reason mean that you consider the moral worth of a new person to be less than X.
I think a lot of people don't consider a new person worth anything at all. Or at least would prefer 9 people at happiness level 10 over 10 people at happiness level 9.
Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement
#43024/7 bombardment with conspiracy theories and partisan political nonsense through television and the internet has turned the relationships and bonds in my extended family into weird factions of outrage addicts that are basically impossible to interact with for any extended amount of time unless you similarly develop a fondness for their flavor of outrage or for their passive aggression for when you don't. It's exhaus…
https://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_lost_my_dad_to_fox_news_h... (2014, situation has generally got worse!)
https://captainawkward.com/2020/12/09/1304-fox-news-stole-my...