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Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#111

Post by voakbasda »

goatsi wrote: post #53
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #34

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have th…

>Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. That isn't actually quite the case. Part of that amazing conviction rate comes from simply not prosecuting cases that they have a chance of losing. So they have an abysmal prosecution rate for crimes like rape.

Rape has abysmal prosecution and conviction rates in the US. A few years ago, I was told 3% of cases end in conviction. Thus it was no surprise that the local prosecutor declined to take my case, despite my providing the glass that contained the drug residue.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#112

Post by Tams80 »

bogomipz wrote: post #35
jumelles wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan's conviction rate is above 99%. If you're arrested you can be held for up to 23 days without access to a lawyer. Japan's justice system is far from perfect.

>"Japan's conviction rate is above 99%." Although this figure is is regularly sited in the context of Ghosn's decision to flee the country this statistic is misleading since in Japan this figure counts cases where the defendant pleads guilty. So this 99% figure applies to all prosecuted cases not just contested cases. If the US were to use the same calculation the conviction rate would be about the same. I believe it…

That's because the prosecution only go for cases they are very certain about. That alone is bad, but on top of that it breeds a culture of them 'always being right and how dare you question us'.

Sorry, but it's a sign of a justice system very out of whack and not something to defend.

People are only okay with it because most people don't have any interaction with law enforcement, let alone the justice system.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#113

Post by frumper »

ohhelloxoxo wrote: post #32
namelessoracle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever thought the American justice system is bad, look into the Japanese one. The whole system is designed to make you confess and apologize. They will literally lie to you and tell you it will all go away if you sign the confession paperwork. You dont get a lawyer while they do this, and they get to keep you for quite a bit of time before you get a lawyer. They also dont do trial by jury, but inquisitorial jud…

Not trying to handwave away issues with the Japanese system, but scale seems relevant here. Japan: 40 incarcerated per 100k population [1] USA: 655 incarcerated per 100k population [2] [1] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/japan [2] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-states-america

That might even show that over time the Japanese system does a better job deterring crime

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#115

Post by alksjdalkj »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #108
plumthreads wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're claiming Japanese in America are representative of Japanese in Japan which is not the case. It's straight up racist too.

I'm making the point that the base rate of criminality needs to be taken into account if you want to compare incarceration rates. For many different reasons people in one society might commit more crime than people in another society. Though I do not use the example myself, preferring the murder rate example, the parent's suggestion is a reasonable way to control for this inter-society difference. I would bet that Ja…

> I would bet that Japanese in the U.S. evince rates of criminality more similar to those of Japanese in Japan than to the rest of American society

What makes you believe that? If true, what might cause that to be the case?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#116

Post by Tams80 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #11

>Until then, he remains a once-big-fish in a small pond, living in exile and under armed guard in Beirut for the foreseeable future. How secure is he in Beruit? If Japan really wanted him badly, I would guess he would be pretty easy for Israeli Mossad to pick up.

Wtf would Mossad get involved, and if they did why would they send him to Japan.

If he were funding Hezbollah (other than through paying taxes in Lebanon), they'd have gotten him anyway by now.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#117

Post by saghm »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #55
Phrodo_00 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this relevant to anything

Weren't we comparing the rate of incarceration of the Japanese in Japan vs the US?

Japanese Americans are a group that has a sizable population of people who have lived their entire lives in the US. If you think that they would be more likely to behave similarly to people who have spent their whole lives in Japan, the burden of proof is on you, because that certainly is not a mainstream view.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#118

Post by bpodgursky »

plumthreads wrote: post #102
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the downvotes, this is the correct perspective. You need to take the base rate of criminality into account, and comparing Japanese in Japan to Japanese in America isn't unreasonable. You could also look at the rate of crimes per capita in each country. For instance, murders per capita: 4.96 in the U.S. vs 0.26 in Japan [0]. If we take this to represent base-rate criminality in that population, then w…

You're claiming Japanese in America are representative of Japanese in Japan which is not the case. It's straight up racist too.

Actually the OP asked the question. By assuming a particular answer, you are providing the racism.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#119

Post by fomine3 »

55555 wrote: post #95
fomine3 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because only Ghosn (considered to) did embezzlement?

The embezzlement charges didn't seem to make much sense when I took a look. Taken literally, sure, maybe he embezzled. But this is a guy who basically set his own salary at whatever number he wanted every year for 20 years. And apparently there was a culture at the top of the company where the executives were able to spend quite freely using company money. If you are able to simply legally pay yourself more if you wa…

This is Fair. For GP:

> Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested?

Then zero arrest is expected, or you have any suspicion?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#120

Post by chihuahua »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #107
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand that part to be honest, from the point of view of the two Americans. Given their part in the escape you'd think they'd be aware of Japan's terrifying justice system and of the situation with the extradition treaties. Why would you help someone escape all that if you have to go back to a country with an extradition treaty with Japan.

Money - maybe he promised them millions for their help.

I think they were paid about $1.3 million. To me, the amount is surprisingly low given how much money Ghosn has, and the risk and effort involved.

Also I find it strange that the names of these 2 guys were known to everyone in the world immediately after Ghosn escaped.

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