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Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#31

Post by anonAndOn »

namelessoracle wrote: post #10
sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

If you ever thought the American justice system is bad, look into the Japanese one. The whole system is designed to make you confess and apologize. They will literally lie to you and tell you it will all go away if you sign the confession paperwork. You dont get a lawyer while they do this, and they get to keep you for quite a bit of time before you get a lawyer. They also dont do trial by jury, but inquisitorial jud…

Previously on HN: Prison in Japan (2017) (gaijinass.com)

https://gaijinass.com/2017/03/30/brutal-realities-of-prison-...

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#32

Post by ohhelloxoxo »

namelessoracle wrote: post #10
sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

If you ever thought the American justice system is bad, look into the Japanese one. The whole system is designed to make you confess and apologize. They will literally lie to you and tell you it will all go away if you sign the confession paperwork. You dont get a lawyer while they do this, and they get to keep you for quite a bit of time before you get a lawyer. They also dont do trial by jury, but inquisitorial jud…

Not trying to handwave away issues with the Japanese system, but scale seems relevant here.

Japan: 40 incarcerated per 100k population [1] USA: 655 incarcerated per 100k population [2]

[1] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/japan [2] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-states-america

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#33

Post by Clewza313 »

Tangentially, here's a fascinating hour-long documentary (in French, but subtitled) on what prison in Japan is like:

https://youtu.be/BJp9nKaO7c4

Bear in mind that this was filmed with the cooperation of the authorities, there are plenty of stories about abuses beyond what is shown.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#34

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate.

Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have the most fascinating culture in my opinion, but the warts are really ugly

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#35

Post by bogomipz »

jumelles wrote: post #28
sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

Japan's conviction rate is above 99%. If you're arrested you can be held for up to 23 days without access to a lawyer. Japan's justice system is far from perfect.

>"Japan's conviction rate is above 99%."

Although this figure is is regularly sited in the context of Ghosn's decision to flee the country this statistic is misleading since in Japan this figure counts cases where the defendant pleads guilty. So this 99% figure applies to all prosecuted cases not just contested cases. If the US were to use the same calculation the conviction rate would be about the same. I believe it was Ghosn's team who first referenced this statistic in the wake of his escape and it was something of a stroke of PR genius as it seems to find its way into nearly all coverage of Ghosn's escape. And these references are seemingly always without a comparative context. The following is a good read on this statistic:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/carlos-ghosn-and-japans-99-c...

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#37

Post by crooked-v »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #34

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have th…

On this note, the Ace Attorney series is one long parody of the Japanese criminal law system, which is why it's such a running theme that every defendant is automatically guilty until you incontrovertibly prove them otherwise and why the defense attorneys get treated like dirt throughout.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#38

Post by microtherion »

azinman2 wrote: post #36
google234123 wrote: post #26

Too bad for all the people that helped him escape who are being jailed now.

Ya exactly. What is his response to them being in jail instead of him? What a horrible thing to do to someone.

Maybe he's working behind the scenes to free them, but in the interview, he did not seem overly concerned about their fate.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#39

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

> He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail

It’s also not ridiculous? She isn’t his lawyer. He’s accused of a multibillion dollar fraud. And he was clearly a flight risk, one she personally amplified.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#40

Post by new299 »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #34

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have th…

What disappoints me is that people make these claims without taking a few seconds to Google…

Academic work I’ve seen suggests it’s basically down to case selection:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/468111

But what also fascinates me is that people can so easily come up with strong opinions about a culture based on limited information I.e saying “a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably”…

It’s weird, people talk about Japan like it’s an alien planet. Klingons may have been based upon the Japanese but I assure you Japanese life is not very much like Star Trek.

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