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Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#101

Post by diogenescynic »

laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

It seemed pretty clear the Nissan part of the Renault-Nissan alliance didn't like the changes Ghosn had made because he made cuts to certain parts of the company that were underperforming. Even though Ghosn's reforms were successful, the Nissan side of the alliance was slighted and seems to have ultimately schemed to set up Ghosn and push him out.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#102

Post by plumthreads »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #97
thaumasiotes wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Japanese Americans are incarcerated per capita in the US?

I don't know why the downvotes, this is the correct perspective. You need to take the base rate of criminality into account, and comparing Japanese in Japan to Japanese in America isn't unreasonable. You could also look at the rate of crimes per capita in each country. For instance, murders per capita: 4.96 in the U.S. vs 0.26 in Japan [0]. If we take this to represent base-rate criminality in that population, then w…

You're claiming Japanese in America are representative of Japanese in Japan which is not the case. It's straight up racist too.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#103

Post by new299 »

miles wrote: post #61
new299 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested in sources on this…

Not OP, but happy to oblige: Japan’s notoriously ruthless criminal justice system is getting a face lift https://qz.com/693437/japans-notoriously-ruthless-criminal-j... A legal review of why Japan high conviction rate is bad https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/legal-review-why-japan-high-c...

The first article has a couple of anecdotes, and a statement that there are reforms in progress.

The second just states “little to do with the assumption that prosecutors only choose cases they are confident they can win” but doesn’t do anything to back up that claim with data. It just discusses aspects of the law that are different in Japan/the US.

Would be more interesting to refute the academic work on this:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/468111

This article posted elsewhere also seems interesting:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/carlos-ghosn-and-japans-99-c...

So, does anyone have anything a bit more detailed and systematic than the above? Also curious about treatment in Japanese prisons as compared to the US/elsewhere.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#104

Post by sharklazer »

55555 wrote: post #95
fomine3 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because only Ghosn (considered to) did embezzlement?

The embezzlement charges didn't seem to make much sense when I took a look. Taken literally, sure, maybe he embezzled. But this is a guy who basically set his own salary at whatever number he wanted every year for 20 years. And apparently there was a culture at the top of the company where the executives were able to spend quite freely using company money. If you are able to simply legally pay yourself more if you wa…

I read it the same way. You said it better than I could.

It seems like an easy way to remove a Gaijin from a Nipponjin-position. Or maybe he made some other execs unhappy behind the scenes.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#105

Post by mattficke »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #97
thaumasiotes wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Japanese Americans are incarcerated per capita in the US?

I don't know why the downvotes, this is the correct perspective. You need to take the base rate of criminality into account, and comparing Japanese in Japan to Japanese in America isn't unreasonable. You could also look at the rate of crimes per capita in each country. For instance, murders per capita: 4.96 in the U.S. vs 0.26 in Japan [0]. If we take this to represent base-rate criminality in that population, then w…

> You need to take the base rate of criminality into account

So is this the kind of thing you measure with calipers, or…

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#106

Post by Goety »

laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

To top it off Japan extradited US citizens for doing something not considered a crime in Japan! In what world does that happen?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#107

Post by bluedevil2k »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #73
google234123 wrote: post #26

Too bad for all the people that helped him escape who are being jailed now.

I really don't understand that part to be honest, from the point of view of the two Americans. Given their part in the escape you'd think they'd be aware of Japan's terrifying justice system and of the situation with the extradition treaties. Why would you help someone escape all that if you have to go back to a country with an extradition treaty with Japan.

Money - maybe he promised them millions for their help.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#108

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

plumthreads wrote: post #102
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the downvotes, this is the correct perspective. You need to take the base rate of criminality into account, and comparing Japanese in Japan to Japanese in America isn't unreasonable. You could also look at the rate of crimes per capita in each country. For instance, murders per capita: 4.96 in the U.S. vs 0.26 in Japan [0]. If we take this to represent base-rate criminality in that population, then w…

You're claiming Japanese in America are representative of Japanese in Japan which is not the case. It's straight up racist too.

I'm making the point that the base rate of criminality needs to be taken into account if you want to compare incarceration rates. For many different reasons people in one society might commit more crime than people in another society.

Though I do not use the example myself, preferring the murder rate example, the parent's suggestion is a reasonable way to control for this inter-society difference. I would bet that Japanese in the U.S. evince rates of criminality more similar to those of Japanese in Japan than to the rest of American society. It's an empirical question; whether merely asking the question is racist or not given your particular sentiments about what's racist is beside the point.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#109

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

mattficke wrote: post #105
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the downvotes, this is the correct perspective. You need to take the base rate of criminality into account, and comparing Japanese in Japan to Japanese in America isn't unreasonable. You could also look at the rate of crimes per capita in each country. For instance, murders per capita: 4.96 in the U.S. vs 0.26 in Japan [0]. If we take this to represent base-rate criminality in that population, then w…

> You need to take the base rate of criminality into account So is this the kind of thing you measure with calipers, or…

...there are large academic fields where people spend entire careers doing exactly this? The statistics are not hard to come by.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#110

Post by twjpdetention »

jumelles wrote: post #28
sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

Japan's conviction rate is above 99%. If you're arrested you can be held for up to 23 days without access to a lawyer. Japan's justice system is far from perfect.

This is NOT true.

You can get detained without any solid proof on anything for 23 days, but immediately upon arrest you will get put in contact with a lawyer if you have one, or can request the 'on duty lawyer'.

If you don't have a lawyer, you get assigned a 'public attorney', but even the public attorneys aren't as bad as in the US. They are just normal lawyers that are required by law to ALSO take cases for people as 'public attorneys', so they are usually very good.

During detainment you can request contact to your lawyer at any moment outside of the regular lawyer visits all few days.

Source: I went through this. Throwaway for obvious reasons.

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