Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#371

Post by Dylan16807 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:06 AM UTC

Meph504 wrote: post #305

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because of terminology like this "Electrified Garage also notes that the cooling system doesn't get anywhere near as hot as an internal combustion engine, and it's not likely that it would either, given that the operating temperature for most lithium-ion batteries is well below 60 degrees Celsius." >So this repair is made on anecdotal observation of ideal conditions, and disregarding factory specifications, and actu…

> The context here is not "they're half-assing it because the system demand are minimal so they can". It's "this repair technique works just fine on real automotive cooling systems that are much more demanding". Firstly, using a tap to reverse thread into plastic housing, and then using brass threading into the housing and into a cut hose with a screw clamps. Internal combustion or not, its hackish, the article even…

> Internal combustion or not, its hackish, the article even recognizes that, and their defense is that some people in Tesla's factory shipped some cars with fake bits of wood from home depot.

It recognizes that someone might want to call it hackish, and effectively says "don't even start".

That's not an agreement that it actually is hackish.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#372

Post by ashtonkem » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:16 AM UTC

lugged wrote: post #308

STRML wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These engineers are actual ex-Tesla technicians, so it's a bit more than half-assing it.

Until it isn't. The attitude about this seems reminiscent of that cable snap in Italy recently. https://youtu.be/uCB1xbkn1Ps And I'm one that is for right to repair, I just don't think it holds up for the lease scenario, I expect my repairs to be done to manufacturers spec and would be concerned about any mechanic for any make making "half arsed" repairs.

There’s a big gulf between “we’re using a common technique that’s regularly used in engines, even though it’s not OEM spec for this specific area” and “we’ve disabled an emergency safety system because it’s not working right”. Trying to equate the two is very disingenuous.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#373

Post by stjohnswarts » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:17 AM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #320

Meph504 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would a competent third-party repair shop be "risky"? because of terminology like this "Electrified Garage also notes that the cooling system doesn't get anywhere near as hot as an internal combustion engine, and it's not likely that it would either, given that the operating temperature for most lithium-ion batteries is well below 60 degrees Celsius." So this repair is made on anecdotal observation of ideal con…

As someone who has a great deal of experience working on high performance cars and racing them, I feel your characterization of this fix as a “hack” is ridiculous. People do more questionable fixes and ferraris and lambos regularly.

Yeah some people can't think outside the box though. Probably not worth arguing with them. Nothing short of a Tesla engineering team coming out to inspect it will they be happy.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#374

Post by ashtonkem » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

1123581321 wrote: post #75

leonhandreke wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not he was insured against this particular damage doesn't make the cost of the repair less outrageous. In the end, drivers will be paying for these repairs, whether directly or through "cheap" monthly insurance payments that hide these occasional events. (I guess similar arguments could be made about other insurance markets)

Yes, as you noted, you’re basically describing the general principle of insurance. :) I don’t own a Tesla but insurance for their cars is already relatively more expensive in several states. This can be readily seen in annual or semi-annual policies. Monthly payment policies that cost more per annum are a concern to me, but don’t factor into underwriting analysis at the make/model level.

I was under the impression that the cost in insuring Teslas was down to the slow repair times, since insurance companies were often on the hook for rental cars while parts are on back order.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#375

Post by ineedasername » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:21 AM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

The article seems to imply that Tesla can very well fix this issue, but they don't train & equip their service centers to maintain the battery.

When the lease is turned in, it will just have to go back to the factory. Destination/freight charges on a car are often about $1200, and this was otherwise a simple fix.

If Tesla feels the need to charge the customer for using a 3rd party repair service that recreated a stronger version of the original fittings then the current owner will still have saved about $14,000, AND all of.your concerns will have been addressed.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#376

Post by ineedasername » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:24 AM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #325

crmrc114 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, your talking about a brass nipple being threaded into a broken plastic part to replace a plastic reducer that was [probably] poorly ultrasonic welded in place. What I see in the article is a common sense repair. Anyone who turns a wrench is laughing at the Tesla fanboy pearl clutching over this. Not an attack on your post btw, just a general statement that every Tesla owner comes out of the cracks in these post…

I agree with the pearl clutching part. Unless Tesla can state exactly how this fix is inferior to it's original design. Putting a brass nipple in a plastic pipe is a tried and tested process. The stated pressure is 2 psi, or max 5 psi during testing. 5 psi is about 3.5 meters of water column. So the pressure is equivalent to what you get in your home. The piping is essentially house plumbing level stuff.

They should also have to state how much the repair would cost if done at the factory where they can actually service the battery pack.

Imagine if other cars were like that: "Sorry, we're not able to service engines so instead of replacing your timing belt for $400 you have to buy a new engine for $6000"

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#377

Post by ineedasername » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:29 AM UTC

codeddesign wrote: post #319

crmrc114 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, your talking about a brass nipple being threaded into a broken plastic part to replace a plastic reducer that was [probably] poorly ultrasonic welded in place. What I see in the article is a common sense repair. Anyone who turns a wrench is laughing at the Tesla fanboy pearl clutching over this. Not an attack on your post btw, just a general statement that every Tesla owner comes out of the cracks in these post…

This is a leased vehicle, meaning that “right to repair” is not associated at all unless you wish to break the lease agreement and owe BIG $$$. All leases are essentially like initial warranties. The dealer has to fix or your warranty goes invalid. This is a mute argument.

You're allowed to bring a leased car to any mechanic for repairs. You don't have to use the dealership, or even OEM parts if others are available. Or at least every lease agreement I've ever read-- and I always read the whole thing-- has never limited this. I'm in the US though, things may differ elsewhere.

Also the correct word it moot, not mute. And neither apply in this situation, so the issue of mute is completely moot.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#378

Post by londons_explore » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #354

kumarvvr wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the pearl clutching part. Unless Tesla can state exactly how this fix is inferior to it's original design. Putting a brass nipple in a plastic pipe is a tried and tested process. The stated pressure is 2 psi, or max 5 psi during testing. 5 psi is about 3.5 meters of water column. So the pressure is equivalent to what you get in your home. The piping is essentially house plumbing level stuff.

The piping is essentially house plumbing level stuff. Much lower pressure, actually - domestic water is supplied closer to 50-60psi. This fix is only inferior to Tesla because it exposed a design flaw and removed their chance to massively overcharge for a tiny repair.

> Much lower pressure, actually - domestic water is supplied closer to 50-60psi.

Cries in England where domestic water can be as low as 10 psi and sometimes won't even reach the top of your house and you have to go downstairs to get water...

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#379

Post by effingwewt » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

tylersmith wrote: post #176

barrkel wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a stretch to describe road debris hitting the undercarriage of a car a "collision". You should expect a vehicle to be engineered so that small objects hitting the undercarriage don't cause significant damage. Making subassemblies replaceable in part rather than in whole is definitely a bonus. When they're only replaceable in whole, I do consider it deficient engineering, especially if a small change would make i…

> It's a stretch to describe road debris hitting the undercarriage of a car a "collision". The insurance that covers such an event is literally called collison insurance.

Indeed. I have full coverage with Geico, as well as uninsured motorist coverage, damage etc.

Well the other night some asshole decided to pac-man all the cones on the highway late at night so we had to navigate a field of almost impossible to see cones (the borders are black and there were no lights up). Several cars, including mine ended up running over a few. I got lucky as it just messed up my paint a bit on the front bumper and I lost a license plate. Two other vehicles crashed over it, really sucked.

Called Geico when I got home and was informed I don't have collision coverage. They told me for this I would have needed comprehensive coverage and collision coverage.

Well joke's on them, my renewal is this month and I'm bouncing. I'd rather find another company that won't weasel out on me. When I signed up I said I wanted to be covered no matter what. I pay enough monthly I should be.

Forcing nsurance (health and renters, cars,etc) should be illegal,it doesn't work as it should. It ends up being a tax we pay to still have to pay out of pocket no matter what.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#380

Post by kumarvvr » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #360

kumarvvr wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the pearl clutching part. Unless Tesla can state exactly how this fix is inferior to it's original design. Putting a brass nipple in a plastic pipe is a tried and tested process. The stated pressure is 2 psi, or max 5 psi during testing. 5 psi is about 3.5 meters of water column. So the pressure is equivalent to what you get in your home. The piping is essentially house plumbing level stuff.

Yes, although I think it is about an order of magnitude less of a problem than that. My house runs at 60psi, +/-3psi, and I think it is pretty bog-standard for US plumbing. It's about 11m from the basement to the attic, and still needs decent pressure upstairs, so, yes, 2-5 psi is silly low pressure to worry about - it's only going to be a slow leak even while running, the only problem is if it runs out, for which I…

Wow, 60 psi? Thats like 40 meters of head. So you must be using booster pumps to get the pressure.

Never knew this.

In India, 99.99% of all homes have gravity flow and static pressure, so except for very tall buildings, no one gets pressure more than 5 - 10 psi.