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“One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

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Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#141

Post by na85 »

jamiek88 wrote: post #110
_tulpa wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see what Elon actually does beyond cultivating public image and having money.

Let’s not go too far the other way now. He’s chief engineer at spacex for starters.

>He’s chief engineer at spacex for starters.

He calls himself that, sure. Elon is a smart guy, and that's why I think he positions himself the way he does. He doesn't want to be Bill Gates, he wants to be perceived as a man of the people. A dudebro who happens to be rich. That's why he's smoking joints with Joe Rogan on camera and tweeting about WSB.

There is zero percent chance that Elon is actually doing any technical analysis or design for SpaceX.

He calls himself Chief Engineer for the same reason Trump claims to be a master-level deal maker. They're narcissists cultivating their respective cults of personality, and the legions of sycophants just lap this stuff up.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#142

Post by AussieWog93 »

delecti wrote: post #118
jamiek88 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not go too far the other way now. He’s chief engineer at spacex for starters.

Edit: I can admit when I'm wrong. I stand by my assertion that it's absurd to call him a founder of Tesla, but his position in SpaceX seems to be legit. ~~He may be credited as chief engineer at SpaceX, but that doesn't mean he's meaningfully contributing to actual engineering efforts.~~ He's also credited as a founder of Tesla, despite not actually being involved in the founding of that company.

Even if he doesn't do the hands-on design work himself, he's clearly good at both recognising engineering talent and evaluating information that's presented to him. You couldn't have either of these skills without some engineering knowledge.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#143

Post by cma »

FearlessNebula wrote: post #129
camjohnson26 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

This doesn't excuse Elon slandering Vernon Unsworth, but didn't Vernon talk shit about Elon's good faith attempt at making a submarine to try to rescue the people?

Didn't Elon disrupt the whole operation at one point, traveling there to get footage or an Instagram Story video?

It is easy to see what is going on and that it isn't in good faith. Look a his breached commitments during the Flint water crisis (filter every home to below FDA levels), coronavius (produce ventilators), Peurto Rico huricane aftermath, and more. He as a common pattern with these kind of events.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#144

Post by sandworm101 »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #67
fab1an wrote: post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

>> supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder

I miss the good old days when such accusations were extreme. Reporters would hesitate to say the word pedophile on air. Airing such an accusation would almost certainly trigger a serious defamation lawsuit. News outlets would instead talk of unspecified personal accusations. Now, thanks to a certain popular letter-based conspiracy theory, calling any public figure a "satan-worshipping pedophile" doesn't even raise eyebrows.

Is is "popular letter-based conspiracy" or "letter-based popular conspiracy"? I'm slipping on my royal order of adjectives.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#146

Post by beachy »

tedivm wrote: post #65
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

Gwynne Shotwell deserves far more of the credit for SpaceX than Musk does.

I'm no fan of Musk's shitty and arrogant behaviour. His treatment of Unsworth was truly disgusting.

But that's like saying after a rugby game that the left wing deserved far more of the credit than the coach or captain, since they were the one who ran in the winning try.

The thing is that Musk makes things happen. Not in some lame and purely money driven field like crypto or ad tech - but genuinely moving the needle in combating climate change.

I feel I have to cut him some slack and laud his achievements, even though he comes across as a person you would involuntarily punch in the face for his hideous behaviour.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#147

Post by paledot »

arcticbull wrote: post #93
lilSebastian wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpler times... 3 years ago...

“Before the war” if you will haha - as in before COVID, which has distorted at least my perception of time greatly.

Also when the very last of my respect for Musk died.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#148

Post by delecti »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #142
delecti wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I can admit when I'm wrong. I stand by my assertion that it's absurd to call him a founder of Tesla, but his position in SpaceX seems to be legit. ~~He may be credited as chief engineer at SpaceX, but that doesn't mean he's meaningfully contributing to actual engineering efforts.~~ He's also credited as a founder of Tesla, despite not actually being involved in the founding of that company.

Even if he doesn't do the hands-on design work himself, he's clearly good at both recognising engineering talent and evaluating information that's presented to him. You couldn't have either of these skills without some engineering knowledge.

I edited my comment a while ago, I'm not sure your reply is really relevant to the updated version.

But what you described is just being a CTO. That's an important job, but is still separate from being chief engineer.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#149

Post by freeopinion »

jimsimmons wrote: post #137
freeopinion wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk had no diving experience, and no knowledge of these caves. He was working from incomplete knowledge and intuition. Almost all of Musk's critics in the matter were working from no knowledge of the caves and little to no diving experience. Some of Musk's critics were working from the best available knowledge in both areas. But this diver points out exactly what Musk intuited. There was a much easier route for all…

You don’t seem to understand the power that a platform like Musk’s has. What if those humble cave divers thought Elon knows his stuff and pursued his plan instead of theirs? What if they got pressured by outside entities, whomever they maybe, and were told to follow him? When it doesn’t go well “he’s just putting options on the table”. When it does he’s colossal genius? The bigger issue people point out is Musk’s ina…

You don’t seem to understand the power that a platform like Musk’s has. He put forward his idea. He built a prototype. He did initial testing. He put out a lot of work (or paid/persuaded others to do so). He was mocked and criticized and rejected. We don't have to play what if on your scenario. We can see the real world results.

If you want to play what if... What if he provided dive robots and body submarines and mapping experts? What if it took him a week to map the caves, find a workable route, and save those kids? What if just one kid had his mask scraped off using the technique they actually did use? What if one kid got stuck and the helper got killed trying to get them unstuck?

The what if game is fun for me with optimistic what ifs. It's a terrible game with pessimistic what ifs. It's largely pointless either way. But sometimes the optimistic version is useful. Sometimes somebody develops dive robots after the fact because the what ifs capture their imagination in a good way.

More people should reject their limits and reach for big things. I don't think Musk is the most amazing person in the world. I realize he has a downside (like we all do). But I hope he inspires people to dream big and accomplish big. That requires optimism. Sometimes even naive optimism.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#150

Post by krapp »

freeopinion wrote: post #149
jimsimmons wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t seem to understand the power that a platform like Musk’s has. What if those humble cave divers thought Elon knows his stuff and pursued his plan instead of theirs? What if they got pressured by outside entities, whomever they maybe, and were told to follow him? When it doesn’t go well “he’s just putting options on the table”. When it does he’s colossal genius? The bigger issue people point out is Musk’s ina…

You don’t seem to understand the power that a platform like Musk’s has. He put forward his idea. He built a prototype. He did initial testing. He put out a lot of work (or paid/persuaded others to do so). He was mocked and criticized and rejected. We don't have to play what if on your scenario. We can see the real world results. If you want to play what if... What if he provided dive robots and body submarines and ma…

>"Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

Except when it doesn't. Sometimes the unreasonable man is just an asshole who wants to play Batman and progress depends on ignoring him completely.

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