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“One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

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Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#91
post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

> We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius.

We also need to hold him to account when Musk tries to ruin the lives of his employees who speak up about what goes on in his companies. He even tried to frame one of them as a mass shooter to police[1] in an effort to get them SWAT'd.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon...

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#92

[flagged]

Yea haha I was going to remind folks of that too. Elon was building a submarine that everyone involved told him was a terrible idea and to please leave them alone because he was hampering the effort, and Elon responded by calling one of the lead rescuers a “pedo guy” and got sued over it. I believe his defense was that “pedo guy” was a common insult in South Africa. Simpler times haha.

It's probably not worth the effort providing any form of defense of any part of Musk's role in this, but his team did ask the British lead divers whether they should carry on working on the sub (well, underwater transportation tank) project, and they received the response that the lead divers wished them to continue as a contingency.

Also, one should obviously not falsely accuse someone of being a pedophile, including if they tell you to shove your submarine up your ass.

But really, this whole thread shows up every time the cave story is mentioned, and I think the whole thing just detracts from the fantastic international act of heroism that the rescue was. It was really a beautiful achievement where no adversaries had to be hurt, the kind of uniting against the cruel laws of nature that I wish the world would see a lot more of.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea haha I was going to remind folks of that too. Elon was building a submarine that everyone involved told him was a terrible idea and to please leave them alone because he was hampering the effort, and Elon responded by calling one of the lead rescuers a “pedo guy” and got sued over it. I believe his defense was that “pedo guy” was a common insult in South Africa. Simpler times haha.

Simpler times... 3 years ago...

“Before the war” if you will haha - as in before COVID, which has distorted at least my perception of time greatly.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#94
post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

[deleted]

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

> We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius. We also need to hold him to account when Musk tries to ruin the lives of his employees who speak up about what goes on in his companies. He even tried to frame one of them as a mass shooter to police[1] in an…

[deleted]

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#96
post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

No one here turns a blind eye to his labor practices. Everyone here at HN knows to steer clear. It’s everyone that doesn’t frequent this website that needs enlightening.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#97
post #48

What is outrageous is that the divers got at most an MBE - on the same New Years Honours list where heroes such as Michael Palin and Twiggy received knighthoods. I have never seen anything really deserving of a knighthood than what those divers did.

The two lead divers (Richard Stanton and John Volanthen) both got the George Medal, the UK's second highest civilian award for gallantry. I think the knighthood is seen more as a kind of national treasure long service award these days.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#98
post #47

I still don't get it. The tunnels were too narrow near the ceilling, but wide near the floor. The divers could not keep at the floor because they could not navigate due to zero visibility, zero communication and no tether points. Would not a sonar help? A full spacesuit-like helmet with air to be able to talk via radio? Laying down some flexible tunnels that could be inflated with air or maybe just pumped with clear…

> I still don't get it.

Clearly not. Why does someone always have to assume they know better?

> they chose the most difficult transport

What are you even basing this statement on?

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#99
post #41
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect Musk more than many commenters you see around. I understand he's not the billionaire savior many people seem to believe. I remember him mentioning something about how the sub couldn't go wrong because if the kids got there and the water rose, it should get where the kids were. How feasible was it, really?

It was never even remotely feasible. Musk's design was simply too large to fit through the restrictions in the cave. It's the kind of nonsense that only someone with no real diving experience could come up with.

Musk had no diving experience, and no knowledge of these caves. He was working from incomplete knowledge and intuition.

Almost all of Musk's critics in the matter were working from no knowledge of the caves and little to no diving experience. Some of Musk's critics were working from the best available knowledge in both areas.

But this diver points out exactly what Musk intuited. There was a much easier route for all those boys to have hiked into the cave. Musk's submarine would probably have worked over that route. But nobody had knowledge of that route at the time.

One solution would have been for Musk or somebody to build little robots that could explore the caves in zero light with sonar mapping equipment. The robots would need to navigate and operate underwater and abovewater in very difficult terrain. It seems like an impractical pursuit under the circumstances. Why even mention such a ridiculous idea? Well, why not? Why not put all options on the table. You can dismiss the "Have Scotty beam them out" stuff immediately. But they were talking about establishing supply lines for months to keep them alive until the water went down. They were talking about drilling holes 1km+ to hopefully tap the chamber where those kids were. They were talking all sorts of stuff.

And yes, somebody was talking body-sized submarines. And somebody might have been talking about dive robots. And sonar mapping.

I was glued to my news feed with a bag of potato chips and so were almost all of you. I don't know diving and I don't know those caves.

I think the divers who rescued them are mental. I mean really crazy. I mean, seriously, who in their right mind would do stuff like that? I think the effort just to find the kids was risk-taking at a scale that terrifies me. Their brains do not work like mine. Thank goodness.

Musk's brain doesn't work like mine, either. I'm not going to criticize the divers. They are clearly heroes. Musk doesn't come off as a hero in this story. But I'm not going to criticize him either. His intuition was right. He did more than click reload on his browser for two weeks. Nobody else liked his idea. Isn't that the story of his life?

In the end, his idea was one of many that were rejected. Instead they went with the crazy idea to tie everybody up, knock them out, and hope they don't accidentally knock their masks off. Who's bright idea was that? Well, it worked.

Let's not bag on the people who made tremendous efforts to rescue the kids. And let's not bag on the people who made some efforts that didn't produce results. And please don't bag on me, who did nothing.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#100
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that elon did not initiate the exchange of words. Elon proposed his submarine. He was told by the diver Vern Unsworth to 'stick his submarine where it hurts'.

Elon Musk is a grown man, not a child, and he should be capable of tact and self control. "He started it" is not a valid excuse for his public, slanderous little temper tantrum.

The slander case was dropped because the diver was indeed a pedophile
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