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“One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

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Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#101
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

As well as completely transforming many people's view of Musk (he ceased to be "the least bad billionaire" for many), the case also reflected extremely badly on the US legal system, showing that if you are rich enough you can get away with pretty much anything.

"Least bad billionaire" is a weird tag to give Musk.

I mean, there are a bunch of people who either inherited a billion dollars or married into it, and, not being psychopaths, they just decided to spend that money doing good and have done with it. That seems pretty easily to be "less bad" than somebody like Bill Gates, Elon Musk, or Warren Buffett who set out to acquire wealth..

I guess if you've got a really out-there moral utility function maybe saving the eyesight of a million children or whatever counts for nothing while making a slightly better toaster oven is a 100% goal achieved, but outside that I can't see any way Musk could be the "least bad billionaire".

Actually I can see a case for a different weird utility function if we also had some billionaires who got wealthy from scientific discoveries or mathematical breakthroughs or philosophical insights. If Martin Hellman had earned $100M per year since the 1980s for licensing fees from DH kex he could be a billionaire and we could argue about whether that's an important thing to give to the world. Or if Judith Butler had become fabulously wealthy explaining to people that gender is a social construct, she'd be a billionaire and we could argue whether that was great. But in reality we do not pay philosophers or cryptographers billions of dollars, that sort of money goes to somebody like Musk or Bezos.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#102
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

As well as completely transforming many people's view of Musk (he ceased to be "the least bad billionaire" for many), the case also reflected extremely badly on the US legal system, showing that if you are rich enough you can get away with pretty much anything.

Happy Birthday Nikola Tesla July 10, 1856 – January 7, 1943

https://www.news18.com/news/lifestyle/nikola-tesla-birth-ann...

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#103
post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

> We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices.

Aren't there legal systems to make sure that's being done right? Is "we" some labor inspectors?

If you want to give credit to engineers, where does it end? There are millions of engineers in the world doing important things. Crediting that many people will dilute the value of it all.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#104
post #61
post #47

I still don't get it. The tunnels were too narrow near the ceilling, but wide near the floor. The divers could not keep at the floor because they could not navigate due to zero visibility, zero communication and no tether points. Would not a sonar help? A full spacesuit-like helmet with air to be able to talk via radio? Laying down some flexible tunnels that could be inflated with air or maybe just pumped with clear…

> Would not a sonar help? Portable sonar systems with in-helmet displays were put in use by the US Navy only last year: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/03/us-navy-teams-w... > A full spacesuit-like helmet with air to be able to talk via radio? Would fuck up your buoyancy, but there are systems where you have only an air pockt around your mouth. But the range would be so low as to be nearly useless inside a…

This may be a somewhat silly question, but why couldn't they just have used flashlights? I'm sure there's an obvious reason, but I don't know what it is.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#105
post #98
post #47

I still don't get it. The tunnels were too narrow near the ceilling, but wide near the floor. The divers could not keep at the floor because they could not navigate due to zero visibility, zero communication and no tether points. Would not a sonar help? A full spacesuit-like helmet with air to be able to talk via radio? Laying down some flexible tunnels that could be inflated with air or maybe just pumped with clear…

> I still don't get it. Clearly not. Why does someone always have to assume they know better? > they chose the most difficult transport What are you even basing this statement on?

I do not assume I know better. I am just asking why any of these ideas would not work.

> What are you even basing this statement on?

As I understand it, the transport was immensely difficult. The divers and the rescued kids were at great danger. It is unbelievable to me they managed to save them without any special solution.

I'm sorry if my comment was misunderstood.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#106
post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

"Bizarrely, Unsworth's lawyer was L Lin Wood, famous for later apparently having a mental breakdown and supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder, and being asked to undergo a mental examination by the state bar of Georgia.

"L Lin Wood's handling of the Unsworth trial was widely panned as incompetent. Unsworth is clearly a hero, and Musk inserting himself into that situation and permanently tainting Unsworth's name was unconscionable."

Bizarre! I saw his suits when I went digging through the post-election hootenanny. Incompetent would be the gentlest way to describe them.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#107
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree but he wasn't a dick in a vacuum - someone was a dick to him, he was a dick back. Your expectations that musk should just take it on the chin without responding in kind are your expectations and honestly nothing to do with musk. This guy was rude to him, he was rude back, you're disappointed in musk, musk doesn't care, you're still fixated on the response rather than what set the tone - the original…

Yes, that was his excuse, "back home calling someone a pedo was just a normal insult", but Musk did a bit more than "was rude back". Hiring a PI to dig up dirt? Sending further lies about the guy to media?

its why I don't start fights with billionaires who can afford to look into you without effort. I wouldn't do it, but once it became a thing I'm 100% every billionaire has a firm who looks into people who start fights with them.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#108
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as completely transforming many people's view of Musk (he ceased to be "the least bad billionaire" for many), the case also reflected extremely badly on the US legal system, showing that if you are rich enough you can get away with pretty much anything.

"Least bad billionaire" is a weird tag to give Musk. I mean, there are a bunch of people who either inherited a billion dollars or married into it, and, not being psychopaths, they just decided to spend that money doing good and have done with it. That seems pretty easily to be "less bad" than somebody like Bill Gates, Elon Musk, or Warren Buffett who set out to acquire wealth.. I guess if you've got a really out-the…

JK Rowling is a good example. She became a billionaire from writing Harry Potter but didn't stay one for long as she donated most of it

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#109
post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

I used to work at one of the Musk companies. He was a huge mark in the "cons" column when I was deciding whether or not to take the job. He is embarrassing and he made me a little ashamed to say where I worked. I did my best to ignore him and I suspect others did too. No one ever talked about him.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#110
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs preten…

I don't really see what Elon actually does beyond cultivating public image and having money.

Let’s not go too far the other way now.

He’s chief engineer at spacex for starters.

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