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“Cat Person” and Me

slate.com

141–150 of 175 posts

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#141

I just read the original article after reading this link. This situation is a perfect microcosm of how the media / contemporary culture at large will take a very human situation with complex personalities and shape it to fit the ideological narrative. The actual story (this link) is nuanced and filled with insights on modern dating culture, while the semifictional New Yorker piece is pretty one-dimensional. As far as…

> “died suddenly” which sounds like code for suicide to me. That's a pretty big assumption. You have no idea why or how Charles died. The only thing you know is it was sudden. There are plenty of non-suicide reasons that young(ish) people die suddenly such as being in some kind of accident or, as happened to an old school friend of mine when we were in our 30s, one day his heart simply stopped beating. There are many…

It's not a pretty big assumption. "Died suddenly" is frequently used to indicate that the individual died via drug overdose or suicide.

A person who was described as being very sensitive died quite soon after his reputation was (falsely) ruined among his social circle. I think it's pretty relevant to the situation.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#142

I just read the original article after reading this link. This situation is a perfect microcosm of how the media / contemporary culture at large will take a very human situation with complex personalities and shape it to fit the ideological narrative. The actual story (this link) is nuanced and filled with insights on modern dating culture, while the semifictional New Yorker piece is pretty one-dimensional. As far as…

It’s not new for writers to be inspired by real-life events or for stories to have broader messages or purposes. Calling this contemporary seems naive, as a part of this thing lately where people act as if for thousands of years we never criticized each other or did anything political until now. But what do you think is the ideological narrative Cat Person aims to fit?

> But what do you think is the ideological narrative Cat Person aims to fit?

As they say, if you gotta ask what jazz is, you ain't never gonna know.

This story isn't really "inspired by real life events." It's a real story of a real person, sloppily modified to fit the zeitgeist's value system.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#143
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, if “looked through social media posts of my partner with their ex” is stalking then there are a lot of stalkers out there in the world in new relationships. Don’t get me wrong, turning that into a story with a few too many true-to-life details would absolutely weird me out too. But I’m not sure she’s a stalking villain.

> if “looked through social media posts of my partner with their ex” is stalking then there are a lot of stalkers out there in the world in new relationships. Most of them don't wildly profit from what their partners might possibly consider to be at least a slightly unsavoury activity though.

If she’d lifted photos from his profile and published them for profit I’d agree with you. But using the photos of their relationship as inspiration for a fictional story is a much more tenuous connection. And it’s not as if the author directly wrote it with the intention to profit, the story was a huge success in a way that surprised everyone.

It isn’t the story of this woman’s relationship, she herself attests to that. It’s a story inspired by the evidence of her relationship. If asked I bet a lot of authors would say they base their stories on some kind of real world experience, does that mean they all owe royalties?

IMO one of the really interesting parts of this essay is the ambiguity. She’s upset, and upset at the author, but isn’t entirely sure if what happened was actually wrong, or what any of it means. I find that a lot more powerful than trying to cast people as unambiguous heroes or villains.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#144
post #75

To me, the most disturbing part of this is the following section: I made plans to rent an apartment with some girls from my econ class the following year, but they told me they’d changed their minds when they found out about my older boyfriend. I'm a woman and I blog. I have made a stab at writing fiction, often loosely based on my life. People tend to assume it is 100 percent true . When I was getting divorced, if I…

> I am disturbed and concerned by the general trend that the world seems to think all heterosexual relationships are inherently abusive or something. We hear a great deal about the bad, the things gone wrong, the dark side and sometimes it seems like there are no good examples out there, no discourse on "This is what a good relationship look like." Well said. There seems to be some larger theme going on, not just abo…

> I'm also disturbed by the idea that all of society, all accomplishment, achievement, and maybe even all relationships are the result of power dynamics

While I think I agree with the thrust of your post, this "idea" sounds right to me. It has a similar feel to statements like "all humans are biased" or "you are a product of your culture"—a commonality which underlies life. Acknowledging these forces makes it easier to discover the ideal relationship/life/etc.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#145
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because old people are generally gross? No, because a relationship between a teenager and someone in their 30s is seen as 'more likely than not to be exploitative'. I've only known two people who fit that bill, and as a third-party observer, both of them seemed incredibly sleazy and manipulative. I'm sure that there are exceptions, but most people would correctly see that kind of age gap as a huge red flag.

Why is it exploitative for a 33yo male to date an 18yo female? Are they not both adults? And who is doing the exploiting? What about a 70yo male and a 33yo female? Still exploitative?

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Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiction isn't the binary you are asserting here. In fact, libelous material is by definition fictional - imputing someone's character by making stuff up. Now I think that this is fiction, but it is definitely skirting the line and the author should probably have changed a few more details.

Libelous material is typically presented as fact.

Oh yeah, I agree. I do think a thinly disguised essay passed off as fiction could be libellous, though. And to reiterate, I don't think the Cat Person piece is libellous.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#147

To me, the most disturbing part of this is the following section: I made plans to rent an apartment with some girls from my econ class the following year, but they told me they’d changed their minds when they found out about my older boyfriend. I'm a woman and I blog. I have made a stab at writing fiction, often loosely based on my life. People tend to assume it is 100 percent true . When I was getting divorced, if I…

> Although I absolutely support things like #MeToo -- support the idea that women should not be silenced about the bad things that have actually happened to them -- I am disturbed and concerned by the general trend that the world seems to think all heterosexual relationships are inherently abusive or something. We hear a great deal about the bad, the things gone wrong, the dark side and sometimes it seems like there are no good examples out there, no discourse on "This is what a good relationship look like."

Thanks for writing this. We need more women saying this.

There's a disturbing conversation I've seen numerous times (mostly on Reddit) that progresses something like this:

1. Someone (usually a woman) says, "It's a problem when men do ".

2. Someone (usually a man) says, "Not all men do ".

3. Someone (usually the original person) says some combination of "That's a derailing argument", "That's such a minor issue compared to the issues women deal with", and/or "We need to deal with the women's issue first".

What people need to realize here, is that this is validating the incel narrative that women just hate men. That is literally saying to men, "Eh, whether or not all men are rapists/abusers/etc. isn't important enough to talk about." There's nuance here, I understand it's not those peoples intention to accuse all men of these things. But by refusing to correct themselves when they make this overly-broad generalization, people who do this are making an accusation against all men, intentional or not. If people are going to put a "All men do X" narrative into the world, some men are going to react with "All women do X". That doesn't mean it's okay for those men to do that--it's men's responsibility to gain a nuanced understanding of the world as well. But we should also recognize that this IS going to be the natural result of making statements about an entire gender.

I'm in my 30s and I'm in some communities that put me in contact with men of a wide variety of ages, including men in their early 20s. It's absolutely heartbreaking to me to see how men who have come into age in recent years feel about themselves and about women. We can't continue to tell young men that they're inherently sexist. We can't continue to be surprised when telling young men that they're inherently sexist results in them giving up on treating women well. No one benefits from this.

And to be clear here, it's not just women (and not all women!) propagating these harmful narratives. This is something all of us can work on. I hope for my part that I've helped the men in my life to come to a healthy view of both themselves and women.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#148

To me, the most disturbing part of this is the following section: I made plans to rent an apartment with some girls from my econ class the following year, but they told me they’d changed their minds when they found out about my older boyfriend. I'm a woman and I blog. I have made a stab at writing fiction, often loosely based on my life. People tend to assume it is 100 percent true . When I was getting divorced, if I…

[deleted]

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#149
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to strongly disagree with that, and not sure how you decided that was objectively true. My argument was to point out a lack of good reason in the first place to have concerns over the age gaps. I agreed life experience can be different, even significantly, I just don't see evidence or reasoning (in any conversation on this topic) it has anything to do with greater potential or likelihood of abuse or any d…

> greater potential or likelihood of abuse or any degree of taking advantage of people. It seems like this is the core of the disagreement. The factors here are complex, but here are some things I would point to as a starting point: - You often have large financial differences that can start completely accidental power imbalances in otherwise healthy relationships if not managed closely. This can happen regardless of…

This sounds like the kind of neurotically self imposed stratification that could lead to socioeconomic and cultural segregation for dating circles.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#150
post #45
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dated a girl. She was in her twenties. You were in your twenties. You are both legally adults. Adults make their own decisions.

Morality just doesn't work off legality, nor is the "adulthood" ever truly clear in reality. In this very specific case, passing no judgement on the OP here, there's a somewhat notable difference often between 20+27 and 22+29 even because of life stages. Do both people have full time jobs, their own place? Is one still in school? Can one not drink at bars in the US? These cultural markers often have far more importan…

Morality is subjective, don't try to force your own morals onto other humans.

It's one to thing to introspect because you feel like you need to, it's another thing to introspect out of fear of having another Cat Person written about you.

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