“Cat Person” and Me • Hacker News Board

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#131

Post by brown9-2 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #67

I just read the original article after reading this link. This situation is a perfect microcosm of how the media / contemporary culture at large will take a very human situation with complex personalities and shape it to fit the ideological narrative. The actual story (this link) is nuanced and filled with insights on modern dating culture, while the semifictional New Yorker piece is pretty one-dimensional. As far as…

It’s not new for writers to be inspired by real-life events or for stories to have broader messages or purposes. Calling this contemporary seems naive, as a part of this thing lately where people act as if for thousands of years we never criticized each other or did anything political until now.

But what do you think is the ideological narrative Cat Person aims to fit?

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#132

Post by whitehouse3 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #119

whitehouse3 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s simpler than that: wide age gaps in relationships are rare and thus call attention to themselves. That a culturally significant body of fiction exists to cast negative attention on them (Lolita, American Beauty e.g.) just amplifies the American sense that “this is unusual”. Prejudicial perhaps. But most people choosing where to live and with whom will optimise for familiarity and security. No one is sayi…

Yeah but you could apply the same exclusions to black people and be rightfully named racist for that.

I don’t disagree. However, the principal objection to racism is not discrimination, but rather that on the basis of immutable characteristics. No one chooses their biological skin colour. So we reject discrimination on that basis.

Age gaps are not an immutable characteristic. Nor are they culturally common in the USA. So they are fair game for discrimination just like any other exercise of free association.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#133

Post by AdrianB1 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

JohnDoerian2 wrote: post #112

AdrianB1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not matter what was the hair color of your ex; as most women are looking for men with a future, most men are looking for women without a past and not take serious one with a past. The hair color is just an excuse. The entire evolution of humankind built that into men, it is in the genes, it is what they are. Societal pressure to vilify relations between older men and young women comes mostly from women. Studi…

The first part of your comment is based on what? It sounds more like a theory that you find in certain circles around the web, which are in my opinion mostly toxic. And the 2nd part also needs a citation especially the villify part. While I am aware of the studies that you are referencing, they usually focus on sexual attraction. But relationships are not only based on sexual attraction.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/head-games/201308/wh...

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/online-d... - see the chart by age

https://metro.co.uk/2019/02/22/men-regardless-age-will-alway...

There are dozens of articles and several studies that confirm strong ageism in men preferences for relations. Few mention that single career women over 35 are the most unhappy people and a quarter are on antidepressants. From here to taking action against the relations of their age group men with younger women is a tiny logical step.

No idea what are the "certain circles around the web", but the overused word "toxic" gives me an idea: it it men in general? I saw the Gillette commercial.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#134

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #127

zozbot234 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, vilifying men who don't meet one's arbitrary social standards is a deeply conservative idea as well. The fact "deep blue feminist college-educated media" folks share such notions doesn't mean the other side is any better - if anything, the whole idea of men's rights as something that's inherently worthwhile is still remarkably niche.

A lot of people who “support men's rights” are really just supporting the (sometimes former) status quo (which isn't great for men, either!), and trying to push back against the idea that women should have rights. They should be distinguished from the people actually trying to solve men's issues – but then again, it's not hard to tell the difference.

Agreed, but one can say the exact same thing about support for women's rights. Arguably, the attitude discussed in this subthread could be seen as a case in point.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#135

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #134

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who “support men's rights” are really just supporting the (sometimes former) status quo (which isn't great for men, either!), and trying to push back against the idea that women should have rights. They should be distinguished from the people actually trying to solve men's issues – but then again, it's not hard to tell the difference.

Agreed, but one can say the exact same thing about support for women's rights. Arguably, the attitude discussed in this subthread could be seen as a case in point.

Now that you mention it, a disturbing amount of activism in general falls into this trap.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#136

Post by bartread » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #67

I just read the original article after reading this link. This situation is a perfect microcosm of how the media / contemporary culture at large will take a very human situation with complex personalities and shape it to fit the ideological narrative. The actual story (this link) is nuanced and filled with insights on modern dating culture, while the semifictional New Yorker piece is pretty one-dimensional. As far as…

> “died suddenly” which sounds like code for suicide to me.

That's a pretty big assumption.

You have no idea why or how Charles died. The only thing you know is it was sudden. There are plenty of non-suicide reasons that young(ish) people die suddenly such as being in some kind of accident or, as happened to an old school friend of mine when we were in our 30s, one day his heart simply stopped beating. There are many others.

The respectful thing to do here is not to speculate on how or why Charles died: we don't know because the author has chosen not to tell us. Perhaps she doesn't know either. Not all families want to share this kind of information.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#137

Post by chris_st » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #56

To me, the most disturbing part of this is the following section: I made plans to rent an apartment with some girls from my econ class the following year, but they told me they’d changed their minds when they found out about my older boyfriend. I'm a woman and I blog. I have made a stab at writing fiction, often loosely based on my life. People tend to assume it is 100 percent true . When I was getting divorced, if I…

> I wish we could take steps towards something more positive.

What I see around me is a lot of social stratification by age.

Get to know some people older and younger than you, and by "get to know" I mean spend a lot of time together. The "youngsters" get to see that it's not all roses and happily ever after, the "oldsters" get to see optimism and alternative points of view.

At a get-together one of the older couples announced they were celebrating their 44th anniversary; one described it as, "24 wonderful years, and 20... of the other kind." The other nodded in agreement. Staying together (A) takes work and (B) is totally worth it (both points from our "mere" 37 years of marriage).

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#138

Post by bartread » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #15

caslon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a villain, though? A creepy internet stalker writes a story about her stalkee's life, monetizes it and gets critical acclaim (and, again, a seven-figure advance for a collection of short stories that only had value due to that story ) for it, causing her strife? I can't help but feel that there's a clear villain here, and a villain that's trying to paint herself as the victim at that.

I dunno, if “looked through social media posts of my partner with their ex” is stalking then there are a lot of stalkers out there in the world in new relationships. Don’t get me wrong, turning that into a story with a few too many true-to-life details would absolutely weird me out too. But I’m not sure she’s a stalking villain.

> if “looked through social media posts of my partner with their ex” is stalking then there are a lot of stalkers out there in the world in new relationships.

Most of them don't wildly profit from what their partners might possibly consider to be at least a slightly unsavoury activity though.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#139

Post by Perceval » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

erulabs wrote: post #75

DoreenMichele wrote: post #56

To me, the most disturbing part of this is the following section: I made plans to rent an apartment with some girls from my econ class the following year, but they told me they’d changed their minds when they found out about my older boyfriend. I'm a woman and I blog. I have made a stab at writing fiction, often loosely based on my life. People tend to assume it is 100 percent true . When I was getting divorced, if I…

> I am disturbed and concerned by the general trend that the world seems to think all heterosexual relationships are inherently abusive or something. We hear a great deal about the bad, the things gone wrong, the dark side and sometimes it seems like there are no good examples out there, no discourse on "This is what a good relationship look like." Well said. There seems to be some larger theme going on, not just abo…

> I'm also disturbed by the idea that all of society, all accomplishment, achievement, and maybe even all relationships are the result of power dynamics.

You can thank the dominance of Foucault in the academy for that.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#140

Post by shinjitsu » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #102

gpcr1949 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I made plans to rent an apartment with some girls from my econ class the following year, but they told me they’d changed their minds when they found out about my older boyfriend. It's definitely no problem to me that people do not want to flat-share with a couple where one partner is 33 y/o and the other in, or shortly after, their "senior year of high school", which if a web search is to be believed usually means…

Because old people are generally gross? As 42 year old your comment sounds to me like the one that people not wanting to rent a flat with someone that has a black partner is perfectly fine because they might not want to meet that kind of people. Some older men are interested in younger women. And some younger women are interested in older man. Assuming that this automatically means they have character flaws worthy of…

A 15 year age gap between a 30 year old and a 45 year old is much less than a 15 year gap between an 18 year old and a 33 year old, especially in the western college educated demographic.