Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal • Hacker News Board

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#311

Post by ehnto » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

lolc wrote: post #133

Judgmentality wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like someone to do a "Years of life saved" calculation that tallies the expected years save by switching smokers to vaping balanced against those who were attracted by vaping who eventually went to smoking. My guess is even with the new entrants the years of life saved would be extraordinary. My understanding is entire high schools are getting addicted to vaping, where before smoking was a relatively minor…

So what's the harm of vaping? As far as I know, there is some evidence of harm, but it compares very favorably to smoking. It's a different class. To talk about "years of life lost" is quite off from what I know about it. And I never vaped, just smoked.

It's still a product using nicotine to form addiction so that you'll be reliant on their product, it's an evil practice. You can vape without nicotine, and it's a great way to quit smoking, but that's not what's happening with all the Juul hype. It's just teenagers getting hooked on nicotine again because marketing has told them it was cool.

It gets a pass because of it's relationship with smoking, giving them a believable reason to keep the nicotine, but if I started putting nicotine in bottled water there would be a class action in a week.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#312

Post by soperj » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #159

egeozcan wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting licensed for vaping is easier? (really asking)

They’re both incredibly expensive and laborious. Like millions of dollars per sku expensive. The fda has put all the good vape shops out of business and extortionate taxes are killing the rest as people revert back to cigarettes. The fda is actively hurting Americans by shifting these costs onto retailers which was a Coup d'état for big tobacco who had been completely blindsided by the success of startup vape compani…

Philip Morris owns 35% of Juul.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#313

Post by trophycase » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

EMM_386 wrote: post #95

lemonberry wrote: post #34

My father has COPD from over 50 years of smoking. I convinced him to switch to vaping and he's been using a Juul for a few years now. Awhile after the switch his primary care physician listened to his lungs and said they sounded a lot better. She said she because the science isn't in "I can't tell you to vape but I can tell you to keep doing what you're doing". Should non-smokers pick up vaping? Probably not. But in…

I agree that vaping is far safer than smoking cigarettes. > I'd like to see more studies in this area and some more regulations on the "juice" for vapes. Remember the media chaos when the "vaping lung disease" was making the cycle? This was likely due to the juice they were using. It contained vitamin E acetate and was found primarily in THC vape juice. Normal e-cigs have standard VG/PG, nicotine and food grade flavo…

The only person I know that vapes regularly has a persistent cough as long as she is vaping and goes away immediately when she stops. I don't think it is as safe as everyone is claiming.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#314

Post by cwkoss » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

boredtofears wrote: post #292

yCombLinks wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% accurate, he didn't say he wanted to quit being addicted to nicotine. He wanted to quit smoking, which he has done.

You haven't really overcome your main addiction in that case though. I don't think that people colloquially interpret that as "quitting smoking" when that term gets used in this context, even if the meaning is literal.

If we accept that addiction is an evil in and of itself, social media addiction should warrant significantly more societal attention that nicotine addiction: it's much more prevalent, both in general population and among children in particular.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#315

Post by snarf21 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

plank_time wrote: post #197

We spent decades trying to get rid of cigarettes and it worked and now we let this fucking Juul through the front door. It’s as if we haven’t learned a fucking thing in decades, and the fact that this founder is celebrated in Silicon Valley sickens me. He just found another opportunity to hook kids on nicotine for another few generations and now he’s a fucking billionaire. Fuck that guy.

If only we would work on the real health issues in this country (world?) and start looking at what is being put into our foods. We largely only went after smoking because of its externalities. There is no such thing as second-hand sugar, sadly.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#316

Post by cwkoss » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

wholinator2 wrote: post #135

aliasEli wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I really wonder if that happens frequently. Cigarettes really taste and smell awful. I discovered how terrible they really are only after I quit smoking. As long as e-cigarettes remain available, I doubt that many people would switch to real cigarettes.

Ive seen it go two ways, you start with the vape pod or all in one systems, get bored and you 1. Buy a big boy vape, roll your own coils, maintain and clean it, the whole shabang. Or 2. Smoke cigarettes I have seen many people choose option 2. The big vape systems are sometimes large, heavy, and clunky, require sometimes very publicly dis and re assembling a little contraption, carrying juice on you, lots of things t…

I quit smoking with Juul, and still use Juul - better experience and more convenient than smoking. I quit smoking because it was inferior to the juul experience AND had health benefits AND juuling is significantly less antisocial - it wasn't a challenge because it was better in about every way. Nicotine gum or previous generations of vapes didn't scratch the itch well enough, juul scratches the itch better.

Apparently juul can no longer ship to private addresses in my state, so I guess I'll have to start looking at other alternatives or go to the tobacco shop to pick up refills regularly.

I'd like to step down my nicotine dosage gradually, but juuling is unfortunately not very conducive to that - only 5mg or 3mg, so I'll probably have to roll my own solution, which is less convenient so I worry about compliance.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#317

Post by legulere » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

We should just take it at face value: make Juul a medical product that you need to get prescribed to get away from cigarettes.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#318

Post by dntrkv » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #304

dntrkv wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fruit flavors do not exist because of the need to market to kids. Go into any vape shop and watch as grown-ass men, one after another, buy vape cartridges with names like Unicorn Blueberry Smoothie. Children aren't the only ones that like tasty flavors. As far as their marketing targeting children, I haven't seen any examples of that. Using millennials in your adverts does not equate to targeting children.

I'm not denying that adult smokers can enjoy fruit flavors, but at this point not even Juul is trying to deny their early marketing was targeted to youths. https://www.vox.com/2019/1/25/18194953/vape-juul-e-cigarette...

None of the evidence in that whitepaper shows that they were targeting kids. They were targeting millennials (ages 24-40 now), like most other products out there today. Once they caught the attention of the media and anti-smoking groups, they made changes to lay low and actively avoid many of the usual advertising channels and approaches.

Minimalist design, tasty flavors, colorful ads, and using social media does not equate to targeting kids.

The kids aren't getting hooked on Juuls because of advertising. They're getting hooked on them because they give you a buzz and are convenient.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#319

Post by egeozcan » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #201

egeozcan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The false dichotomy they bring forward anytime people mention the adverse health effects is really impossible to swallow. There have always been products to battle nicotine addiction. They should compare this to those.

> They should compare this to those. Or we could trust the adults who chose one product over the other to make those decisions.

False marketing does need government intervention. If you think otherwise, that's a whole different kind of discussion.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#320

Post by moftz » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #230

wayneftw wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a smoking cessation product. It helps you cease smoking. Vaping is not smoking.

Ok, so it's a smoking cessation product if you take the definition strictly - but it doesn't do anything to get you off your nicotine addiction, which people usually mean by "smoking cessation product"...

A vape can be much cheaper than cigarettes and you get the benefit of not inhaling smoke and smelling like smoke. You can also begin reducing the amount of nicotine in your vape juice without reducing the amount of time you spend vaping. Most brands offer numerous levels of nicotine from something that's a little stronger than regular cigarette down to none.