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Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

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Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#201

Post by krrrh »

egeozcan wrote: post #94
afavour wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it. But it’s marketed as a lifestyle product and a ton of young people with no history of smoking have started vaping as a result.

Exactly. The false dichotomy they bring forward anytime people mention the adverse health effects is really impossible to swallow. There have always been products to battle nicotine addiction. They should compare this to those.

> They should compare this to those.

Or we could trust the adults who chose one product over the other to make those decisions.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#202

Post by [deleted] »

kevincox wrote: post #68
BoxOfRain wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for Juul but I credit my smoking cessation entirely to vaping. I've not had any nicotine since 2020, vaping or smoking! I think there's a real attitude among a small number of non-smokers that quitting without some form of sustained suffering is "doing it wrong" and that addicts of any kind deserve pain to atone for the sin of being an addict. This attitude is extremely unhelpful and should be condemned…

It may not be "doing it wrong" but different people work in different ways. I know one friend who tried to quit a couple of times by easing off with no luck. However one time they decided to just stop and it worked. They felt like crap for a week or two but then they were off it.

[deleted]

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#203

Post by BoxOfRain »

kevincox wrote: post #68
BoxOfRain wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for Juul but I credit my smoking cessation entirely to vaping. I've not had any nicotine since 2020, vaping or smoking! I think there's a real attitude among a small number of non-smokers that quitting without some form of sustained suffering is "doing it wrong" and that addicts of any kind deserve pain to atone for the sin of being an addict. This attitude is extremely unhelpful and should be condemned…

It may not be "doing it wrong" but different people work in different ways. I know one friend who tried to quit a couple of times by easing off with no luck. However one time they decided to just stop and it worked. They felt like crap for a week or two but then they were off it.

I'm not against people quitting cold turkey if that's what works for them, addiction is different for everyone and if that's the most effective way of quitting for a person then fair enough. What I'm against is non-smokers preaching that it's the only way as opposed to something like vaping when they're in no position to make such a claim.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#204

Post by vimacs2 »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #196
smeej wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely, but no such conversation about banning any of the big tobacco companies from selling theirs? It's all about power. There are so many things it would be useful to quantify and compare: Does anybody know the difference between the percentage of non-nicotine users who begin smoking cigarettes and the percentage who begin vaping…

> How much more dangerous is nicotine than alcohol? If you divorce nicotine from its problematic delivery systems, nicotine itself is a pretty good drug (albeit very addictive). It's potentially protective against diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, it's associated with weight loss, and it improves short term memory and attention. It's also great in combination with caffeine, and it speeds up caffeine metaboli…

This is one of the main reasons why I vape.

I first got interested in the nootropic properties of nicotine long before I took up the pen when I came across Gwern's article on it. In particular, the possibility of reinforcing habits using it was the biggest thing that made me look into it. However, he uses gum instead.

https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#205

Post by franga2000 »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #150
leereeves wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm definitely against marketing vaping to non-smokers. But I'm fine with converting existing smokers to vaping How can a society allow marketing vaping as a healthier way to smoke without allowing marketing that makes non-smokers think vaping is a healthy way to smoke? (Especially considering that the marketers are eager to market to non-smokers.)

Hot take. Ban marketing/advertising? These are conversations that belong in a physicians office. Advertising is a scam on both sides and destroys instead of creates value for humanity. Historians will look back upon advertising the way many look back upon slavery.

Is it not already? Genuine question. In all of the coutries I'm familiar with, both smoking and vaping are illegal to advertise. Even alcohol in some cases, although more commonly it's allowed but strictly regulated (must be purely factual, no glorification, mandatory health disclaimer...)

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#206

Post by jimbilly22 »

afavour wrote: post #76
lemonberry wrote: post #34

My father has COPD from over 50 years of smoking. I convinced him to switch to vaping and he's been using a Juul for a few years now. Awhile after the switch his primary care physician listened to his lungs and said they sounded a lot better. She said she because the science isn't in "I can't tell you to vape but I can tell you to keep doing what you're doing". Should non-smokers pick up vaping? Probably not. But in…

I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it. But it’s marketed as a lifestyle product and a ton of young people with no history of smoking have started vaping as a result.

It is. Their advertising is extremely strictly regulated and literally all of their ads and marketing material focus on smoking cessation.

Note: this came after initial warnings from the FDA years ago that they were going to ban the product unless.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#207

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

OptionX wrote: post #183
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re both incredibly expensive and laborious. Like millions of dollars per sku expensive. The fda has put all the good vape shops out of business and extortionate taxes are killing the rest as people revert back to cigarettes. The fda is actively hurting Americans by shifting these costs onto retailers which was a Coup d'état for big tobacco who had been completely blindsided by the success of startup vape compani…

Several "Citation needed" in that comment.

Here’s a good primer. I was a bit off, it’s not millions per sku, more like hundreds of thousands, but all the combinations of products also need to be accounted for and approved at great cost.

https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-dea...

If that’s not enough detail let me know, I’m happy to dig up other old articles for you. This small business destroying charade by the fda has been well documented and publicized. Though not as well as the fear mongering about children juuling.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#208

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

franga2000 wrote: post #205
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take. Ban marketing/advertising? These are conversations that belong in a physicians office. Advertising is a scam on both sides and destroys instead of creates value for humanity. Historians will look back upon advertising the way many look back upon slavery.

Is it not already? Genuine question. In all of the coutries I'm familiar with, both smoking and vaping are illegal to advertise. Even alcohol in some cases, although more commonly it's allowed but strictly regulated (must be purely factual, no glorification, mandatory health disclaimer...)

Banned, in theory? Enforced? Nah.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsui...

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#209

Post by hummusandsushi »

fromfar wrote: post #165

I used to be a cigarette smoker who went to juuling and eventually "quit" (I still cave to a few puffs of e-cigs every month or so when I'm with someone that has one). I agree if you have no intention to quit, juuling is much safer than continuing to inhale smoke. But you might want to be careful using it as a smoking cessation tool. I smoked about 7 cigarettes a day but after I picked up juuling the sheer convenienc…

I have a similar story but with just non-juul vaping. I actually started smoking again to stop vaping because I was so heavily addicted to the high nicotine availability. At least with cigarettes you get a sick feeling if you smoke too much, but with vape I would sometimes just puff away until I would start jittering from too much nicotine.

Ended up just quitting cigarettes instead which ended up being easier after getting over the mental block that makes you think it's so much harder than it really is. Everyone's mileage varies though of course.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#210

Post by tialaramex »

leereeves wrote: post #170
smeej wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely, but no such conversation about banning any of the big tobacco companies from selling theirs? It's all about power. There are so many things it would be useful to quantify and compare: Does anybody know the difference between the percentage of non-nicotine users who begin smoking cigarettes and the percentage who begin vaping…

> Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely Important distinction: I didn't say anything about banning sales , just marketing, which we've already done for both smoking and alcohol. > How much more dangerous is nicotine than alcohol? According to the CDC, "cigarette smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States...causes more than 480,000 deat…

However note that's comparing smoking not nicotine.

Inhaling smoke is very bad for you. Lots of people die this way in fires. Like, you cut the victims open and there is soot in their lungs. So, no surprise smoking cigarettes is also a bad idea even if it's less bad than being in a literal burning building.

Nicotine is poisonous, but so is booze. There may be other things about vaping which are bad for you, but it seems pretty clear that the main problem is the nicotine, which is why people are doing it anyway, so, fine.

Booze has another important difference though: The ones drinking aren't always the ones dying. That can be because they're impaired while operating machinery (e.g. someone has "a few beers" then drives home, next morning they don't remember anything about how they got home, but there's a blood red stain on the bumper and someone else is found dead in a ditch) or they might just become violent and cause deliberate harm to others.

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