Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#61

Post by aunty_helen » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

Renaud wrote: post #43

Justsignedup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically in NZ they have nether vaccine nor any remaining covid. Because they solved it as a community. Instead we created a global persistent pandemic. Cool.

They solved it as long as they can live without contact with anyone else. As much as it shows what could be done with drastic measures, NZ is an island with small population, in the middle of nowhere so it can easily lock its borders compared to say, pretty much any European country. They certainly handled it better, but I'm not sure that they will actually be ready to live in a COVID world any time toon without a st…

Just to be clear, Australians are barred from leaving the country whilst NZers are free to come and go, provided when they return they do a 14 day quarantine at their own expense.

Getting a spot in the quarantine hotels is difficult but possible on a 3 month time frame.

As for the tourism thing, I’ve heard that it’s actually a net positive for the country(~1.5%). Whilst we have no foreign tourists, we’re also not heading overseas spending money.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#62

Post by EForEndeavour » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

deregulateMed wrote: post #41

cfcf14 wrote: post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

If you don't know statistics, it's time to learn. Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Even with these demographics, it had a 1% death rate, the same order of magnitude as various viral illnesses. We really should have not blown this out of proportion. I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Media loves fear. Politicians wanted…

This comment makes me want to bet money that you don't work in the health space and you aren't friends with a single practicing healthcare provider.

> Do we spend trillions of dollars a year on safer cars?

The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's annual budget exceeds $1T (EDIT: $1 billion, not trillion, thanks KptMarchewa) [1], and that's just part of government spending on highway safety -- far from the full picture of "vehicle safety." Your homework is to look up the safety R&D spending of the top automotive manufacturers in the USA. "We" absolutely do spend a ton of money and research on vehicle safety, and it's paid off in the form of an exponential drop in deaths per unit distance traveled.

[1] PDF Page 11 of https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-02/F...

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#63

Post by deregulateMed » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

jaimebuelta wrote: post #54

deregulateMed wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know statistics, it's time to learn. Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Even with these demographics, it had a 1% death rate, the same order of magnitude as various viral illnesses. We really should have not blown this out of proportion. I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Media loves fear. Politicians wanted…

> Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Or unless you happen to require hospitalisation at the same time than a lot of "old, sick or obese" people where saturating the available beds and ICUs of every hospital. There are second order effects on the wave that we experienced. The most dramatic probably has been in India, where the lack of available oxygen produced a lot of deaths. And we…

A lack of ICU beds is a healthcare industry issue. If anything this should be a red flag that our healthcare cartels have created a shortage.

But also my metro area of 5 million people never ended up having a shortage, and our area had a bunch of anti maskers.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#64

Post by deregulateMed » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

dewey wrote: post #47

deregulateMed wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know statistics, it's time to learn. Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Even with these demographics, it had a 1% death rate, the same order of magnitude as various viral illnesses. We really should have not blown this out of proportion. I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Media loves fear. Politicians wanted…

> I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Or, you know, people who have "old, sick, or obese" people in their family and maybe don't want to get them killed?

Wear an n95 mask.

The lockdowns didn't work. N95 masks do work.

The overreaction was anti science from statistics to actual implementation.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#65

Post by deregulateMed » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

forinti wrote: post #52

deregulateMed wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know statistics, it's time to learn. Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Even with these demographics, it had a 1% death rate, the same order of magnitude as various viral illnesses. We really should have not blown this out of proportion. I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Media loves fear. Politicians wanted…

Lots of people who were perfectly healthy can't even get out of bed now. It's not a small problem. And neither is having 1% of your population sick and dying in such a short time.

Citation needed. This should be flagged for fear mongering.

Edit- And the ambiguity of the word "lots" is particularly unhelpful

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#66

Post by minikites » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

deregulateMed wrote: post #59

toyg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with that view, but it's really hard to find positives from the rise of Covid. Everyday life was effectively mutilated for more than a year, we might have to coexist forever with an infectious disease that can debilitate us even after getting "vaccinated", and most of the Western ruling classes were revealed as incompetent buffoons just "winging it" from day to day. On the other hand, we can now miti…

This new mRNA tech might completely change some degenerative diseases. My kid may benefit, although given the rarity of the condition and time to approval I'm less hopeful. Hopefully we stop trusting politicians, physicians, and scientists and start trusting Science and statistics.

>This new mRNA tech might completely change some degenerative diseases.

For those who can afford it. Just another example of the rapidly growing chasm between the wealthy and the poor.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#67

Post by Arnt » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #38

datameta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there would be no need for an ever present risk of lockdown if every single country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks a year and a half ago. But no, muh freedomᵀᴹ and the economy!! are far more important considerations that certainly didn't turn out to actually be incredibly short-sighted. I'm lucky to live in a place with >70% vaccination rate. So this no longer comes from a place of grievance toward personal…

> if every country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks This is an absurd fantasy that couldn’t have been possible in the real world. > But no, muh freedom, and but the economy! Your mocking tone is out of place. I do in fact think freedom and the economy are both important. Don’t you?

I'll try with a different tone.

The intention of keeping freedom and not harming the economy was IMNSHO not matched by that effect and the discrepancy wasn't really surprising.

The authorities where I live decided to keep more open than I considered wise, and not much later closed a lot of sports, for example. The effective choice was freedom now against freedom later, even if the intention was to choose more freedom rather than less.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#68

Post by thevagrant » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

Renaud wrote: post #43

Justsignedup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically in NZ they have nether vaccine nor any remaining covid. Because they solved it as a community. Instead we created a global persistent pandemic. Cool.

They solved it as long as they can live without contact with anyone else. As much as it shows what could be done with drastic measures, NZ is an island with small population, in the middle of nowhere so it can easily lock its borders compared to say, pretty much any European country. They certainly handled it better, but I'm not sure that they will actually be ready to live in a COVID world any time toon without a st…

NZ already has vaccinations rolling out. They do not plan to have restricted borders forever. Last I heard 1.5m doses had been distributed and govt expects everyone to be vaccinated by end of year.

People can travel but on return would face a quarantine process so most do not bother (except for recent travel bubble destinations). Athletes travel.

Most people have been supportive of the NZ govt as the healthcare infrastructure may not hold up with large numbers of sick COVID patients, hence the vaccine being helpful in reducing those critical cases requiring hospitalisation.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#69

Post by aunty_helen » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #19

Justsignedup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically in NZ they have nether vaccine nor any remaining covid. Because they solved it as a community. Instead we created a global persistent pandemic. Cool.

Unlike New Zealand, most countries don’t think indefinite draconian restrictions on travel and ever-present risk of being locked down with little notice are an acceptable price to pay for a small increase in life expectancy. I share that viewpoint, and am very happy not to live in New Zealand.

Describing the covid pandemic as simply a small decrease in life expectancy is a little on the nose.

Also, as a vaccinated New Zealander who after spending 5 months at home is now traveling again, I can assure you people there are happy and mostly oblivious to what has gone on overseas.

The travel restrictions whilst draconian, aren’t absolute and are being eased when needed. The travel bubble with Australia being a good example of this.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#70

Post by Spooky23 » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

datameta wrote: post #32

School-Cotton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike New Zealand, most countries don’t think indefinite draconian restrictions on travel and ever-present risk of being locked down with little notice are an acceptable price to pay for a small increase in life expectancy. I share that viewpoint, and am very happy not to live in New Zealand.

Except there would be no need for an ever present risk of lockdown if every single country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks a year and a half ago. But no, muh freedomᵀᴹ and the economy!! are far more important considerations that certainly didn't turn out to actually be incredibly short-sighted. I'm lucky to live in a place with >70% vaccination rate. So this no longer comes from a place of grievance toward personal…

It's a little more complicated than that.

When you live on islands thousands of miles away from anywhere with a fairly homogenous population and diversified economy, it's easier both physically and politically to take isolation action against a pandemic.