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Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

fortune.com

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Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#31
post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

Things always seem to be 'worse than previously thought'.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically in NZ they have nether vaccine nor any remaining covid. Because they solved it as a community. Instead we created a global persistent pandemic. Cool.

Unlike New Zealand, most countries don’t think indefinite draconian restrictions on travel and ever-present risk of being locked down with little notice are an acceptable price to pay for a small increase in life expectancy. I share that viewpoint, and am very happy not to live in New Zealand.

Except there would be no need for an ever present risk of lockdown if every single country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks a year and a half ago.

But no, muh freedomᵀᴹ and the economy!! are far more important considerations that certainly didn't turn out to actually be incredibly short-sighted.

I'm lucky to live in a place with >70% vaccination rate. So this no longer comes from a place of grievance toward personal inconvenience. I'm shaking my damn head at the collective lack of wisdom that was exhibited in countries' responses, including my own.

̶E̶d̶i̶t̶:̶ ̶P̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶ ̶f̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶v̶o̶t̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶p̶o̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶o̶p̶i̶n̶i̶o̶n̶.̶

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#33
post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

Every other reply to this comment: "Have you tried not being sad by being happy instead?"

Sometimes the world does get worse. History is not a linear function of progress, there are many examples of generations which have been much worse off than the generations that precede them. It's time we re-evaluated society and how we care for each other because we're not at the end of history. Ruthless capitalism isn't compatible with our rapidly decaying biosphere. It's completely ridiculous how much wealth a handful of people have while the rest of us suffer under the USA's medieval healthcare system. We know what choices to make, we just refuse to make them because rich people might get mad. The world is getting worse, but we can ameliorate the biggest problems if we choose to do so.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#34

Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

It’s confirming data published by UK health authorities coming to the same conclusion.

If you’re 2x vaccinated, hospitalization is highly unlikely for Alpha and Delta variants.

See this report, page 44 bottom:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next sentence is: From May 2 to June 5, the efficacy rate in preventing hospitalization was 98.2%, compared with 93% from June 6 to July 3 That's a 4x higher chance of hospitalisation.

It could be worse. It could have gone from a 99.9% to 99.1% in preventing hospitalization. That would be an 9x higher chance of hospitalization!

That's the difference between extended lockdown periods and normality in many countries.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#36
I've lost count of how many times we've seen the same headline for different variants and relating to different underlying results, and this "less effective" headline always seems to get interpreted by people I talk to as "we'll be back to living like it's 2020 again pretty soon here" rather than the much more accurate "kinda sucks for us collectively but if you and all your close contacts get vaccinated (if!) then it's probably not enough additional risk that you should want to change your behavior".

I notice that I'm also curious what their methodology for coming up with these effectiveness numbers is, and even the "original" public source at https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rJQ1O5kp00 doesn't seem to make that clear.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#37
post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

Consider the big picture.

Life is suffering with sparse sprinkles of happiness here and there. If you feel bad take a page from Budism, it's the best religion for your mind, and I am an avid agnostic. It's the "No bullshit" religion, basically it's your problem, fix it or learn to live with it.

It teaches you to embrace suffering as part of living, everything is for you to endure, consider how to solve (or not) and grow. By solve I mean reflect on the outcomes and choose to do something, just accept it or just ignore it. The best thing you can do is learn to be your own support, by analysing the issues that throuble you and choose a path.

Besides that We live in the best era human kind has ever had by a long mile.

  * There is food to survive for almost everyone, no famines in the last 100 years.
  
  * Big world changing wars have not happened in almost 100 years.
  
  * So much extra wealth in the world almost anyone can enjoy life a bit, have a hobbie, travel, eat out, go out, movies, theather, sports.

  * No cold war, no dooms day clock

  * Democracy, information is basically free.

  * Freedom to do whatever you want ( and face the consequences too)

  * Poverty is getting smaller by the day (yeah rich are getting richer but check 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800 or 1900 out for a good perspective on what being poor was)
Basically we are the luckies people that ever lived, COVID or no COVID.

Randomly pick to someone from any other year that ever lived, your life is better even if you get a king it's probably still better.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike New Zealand, most countries don’t think indefinite draconian restrictions on travel and ever-present risk of being locked down with little notice are an acceptable price to pay for a small increase in life expectancy. I share that viewpoint, and am very happy not to live in New Zealand.

Except there would be no need for an ever present risk of lockdown if every single country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks a year and a half ago. But no, muh freedomᵀᴹ and the economy!! are far more important considerations that certainly didn't turn out to actually be incredibly short-sighted. I'm lucky to live in a place with >70% vaccination rate. So this no longer comes from a place of grievance toward personal…

> if every country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks

This is an absurd fantasy that couldn’t have been possible in the real world.

> But no, muh freedom, and but the economy!

Your mocking tone is out of place. I do in fact think freedom and the economy are both important. Don’t you?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#39
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next sentence is: From May 2 to June 5, the efficacy rate in preventing hospitalization was 98.2%, compared with 93% from June 6 to July 3 That's a 4x higher chance of hospitalisation.

Yeah, but it's still an astonishing result. Most of the non mRNA vaccines have efficacies below 90%, not taking into account the delta variant.

I think efficacy is usually defined as preventing symptoms, a higher bar than preventing hospitalizations. I believe most vaccines were extremely successful at preventing hospitalizations.

Edit: Pfizer's primary endpoint was efficacy against lab-confirmed Covid-19 [1].

[1]: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#40
post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

Bill Gates had this book on his reading list one year and I found it helpful to provide a different perspective (data based) on how things are improving in the world. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RGR16DL/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... Remember that most media is built on the idea of capturing attention and it is easier to capture attention with stories of fear and disaster than it is with positive stories. 3 local acts o…

I don't disagree with that view, but it's really hard to find positives from the rise of Covid. Everyday life was effectively mutilated for more than a year, we might have to coexist forever with an infectious disease that can debilitate us even after getting "vaccinated", and most of the Western ruling classes were revealed as incompetent buffoons just "winging it" from day to day.

On the other hand, we can now mitigate deadly diseases in less than 12 months, as a species, although we'll be fleeced by pharma companies for the trouble.

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