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Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

fortune.com

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Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#41

Post by deregulateMed »

cfcf14 wrote: post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

If you don't know statistics, it's time to learn.

Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Even with these demographics, it had a 1% death rate, the same order of magnitude as various viral illnesses.

We really should have not blown this out of proportion. I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Media loves fear. Politicians wanted to use this.

Do we spend trillions of dollars a year on safer cars? No, but apparently if we use statistics we should.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#42

Post by admiral33 »

vmception wrote: post #6
cfcf14 wrote: post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

Then turn off the news. You need to look for actual signals such as availability of emergency services. Hospital capacity.

I believe that when we are presented with a threat our instinct is to identify and classify it to the best of our ability. A comment on HN that has stuck with me:

> Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

> This didn't address my favorite theory: that (some) kids are programmed to learn as much as they can about the nearby megafauna, and in this world the closest approximation is these big garbage/fire/construction vehicles.

There is an asymmetry between the level of information we can collect in our immediate surroundings and online. The same method that kids employ to detect an unknown and quickly classify it as a non threat with the limited information they have available to them becomes paralyzing when the amount of information available is seemingly infinite. An endless number of threats, and an endless amount of information available about them.

Before the internet and television, how many times would a person feel threatened in their lifetime before a threat materialized that ultimately took their life? What is that number now?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#43

Post by Renaud »

Justsignedup wrote: post #15
rossdavidh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this exactly what we would expect? It's more or less similar to what probably happened with the flu in 1920. New flu variants were still popping up, but they weren't like the 1918-1919 type, and the mortality rate was much lower. Plus, I recall being told before the vaccines showed up that they would be better at reducing mortality than at eliminating getting sick at all. Now, if you thought you were going to j…

Ironically in NZ they have nether vaccine nor any remaining covid. Because they solved it as a community. Instead we created a global persistent pandemic. Cool.

They solved it as long as they can live without contact with anyone else.

As much as it shows what could be done with drastic measures, NZ is an island with small population, in the middle of nowhere so it can easily lock its borders compared to say, pretty much any European country.

They certainly handled it better, but I'm not sure that they will actually be ready to live in a COVID world any time toon without a strong and thorough vaccination rollout like everybody else.

Wanting to keep zero case as all cost is going to be increasingly difficult and expensive to maintain: how long will the population accept that they can't travel? Can an economy partially dependent on tourism afford not to be open? Wouldn't NZ be penalized at some point if business people/athletes/students/engineers/scientists can't fly to or from it?

Even if all western countries had been exemplary -ignoring that it would probably be impossible anyway- as long as we don't ensure that even poorer countries are able to stamp out the virus, there will always remain sources of variants that will continue to spread across the world.

Look at Australia. Small population, big country, huge barriers to entrance (even for residents), extreme quarantine measures, and yet, you only need a single infected person to start spreading again.[1] As long as the population won't reach the minimum vaccination level required, they will continue to be barred from travelling and get lockdowns.

Looks like the only hope we have is to accept it's there and ensure that the impact remains manageable through vaccination and targetted health control measures.

[1]:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/world/sydney-lockdown-cov...

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#44

Post by mizzack »

shoto_io wrote: post #34
School-Cotton wrote: post #3

Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

It’s confirming data published by UK health authorities coming to the same conclusion. If you’re 2x vaccinated, hospitalization is highly unlikely for Alpha and Delta variants. See this report, page 44 bottom: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

What's going on on page 12?

35,251 unvax cases, 34 deaths

4,087 full vax cases, 26 deaths (!?)

I'm guessing the vax population still skews older?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#45

Post by kleiba »

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #16

The headline seems misleading. Isn’t the reduction possibly caused as much by easing of restrictions as by the Delta variant? > Israel has recorded a steep drop in the efficacy rate of the Pfizer Inc.-BioNTech SE in preventing coronavirus infections, due to the spread of the delta variant and the easing of government restrictions.

A different source [1, German only] details that these numbers are based on observations from the last two weeks, and that 50 percent of the newly infected people had been vaccinated.

[1] https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/asien/israel-studie-impfun...

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#47

Post by dewey »

deregulateMed wrote: post #41
cfcf14 wrote: post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

If you don't know statistics, it's time to learn. Coronavirus was never a big deal unless you were old, sick, or obese. Even with these demographics, it had a 1% death rate, the same order of magnitude as various viral illnesses. We really should have not blown this out of proportion. I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation. Media loves fear. Politicians wanted…

> I think when people realized we could work from home, people faked fear to enjoy a mini vacation.

Or, you know, people who have "old, sick, or obese" people in their family and maybe don't want to get them killed?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#48

Post by datameta »

School-Cotton wrote: post #38
datameta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there would be no need for an ever present risk of lockdown if every single country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks a year and a half ago. But no, muh freedomᵀᴹ and the economy!! are far more important considerations that certainly didn't turn out to actually be incredibly short-sighted. I'm lucky to live in a place with >70% vaccination rate. So this no longer comes from a place of grievance toward personal…

> if every country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks This is an absurd fantasy that couldn’t have been possible in the real world. > But no, muh freedom, and but the economy! Your mocking tone is out of place. I do in fact think freedom and the economy are both important. Don’t you?

Yes, my freedom over the course of almost 1.5 years was adversely affected because we couldn't handle a month without it.

And yes, the economy was adversely affected because most small businesses were shuttered for half a year and swaths of them went out of business since we could not bear closing everything down for a sixth of that time period.

Edit: Please explain to me how swallowing real estate, employee, and supply chain expenses for 30 days would have been more difficult or less preferable to the splintered schedule of mandated closings over a far longer time period.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#49

Post by andybak »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #22
School-Cotton wrote: post #3

Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

Would that mean there's an increased likelihood I'll be out and about while contagious if I get the vaccine? It would be hilarious if the same finger-waggers who want everyone vaccinated or quarantined would eventually want to reserve the vaccine for a privileged few.

> the same finger-waggers who want everyone vaccinated or quarantined

Ignoring the name-calling for a moment, what is it that you want for everyone?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#50

Post by minikites »

cfontes wrote: post #37
cfcf14 wrote: post #2

I'm so exhausted and demoralised by this endless cascade of things-getting-worse. It's taking a really big toll on my mental health and there's no resources available in my country to offer support (and there's nothing to be done except try to learn to live with it, anyways). The future looks bleak.

Consider the big picture. Life is suffering with sparse sprinkles of happiness here and there. If you feel bad take a page from Budism, it's the best religion for your mind, and I am an avid agnostic. It's the "No bullshit" religion, basically it's your problem, fix it or learn to live with it. It teaches you to embrace suffering as part of living, everything is for you to endure, consider how to solve (or not) and g…

>Democracy is booming

It absolutely is not, there are many threats to democracy right here in the USA. Many Republican states are passing massive voter suppression bills.

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