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Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

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Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#231

Post by axaxs »

LightG wrote: post #122
axaxs wrote: post #56

I don't get Amazon's play here. Just charge me more money for items, and pay your people well. I'd rather have a happy safe driver than a miserable one at the end of his or her rope, all so I could save a dollar. Reminds me of Papa John complaining giving his employees healthcare would make prices go up 14 cents per pizza. Seriously? Who cares about 14 cents when ordering a pizza... Amazon's entire value to me is fas…

>>Amazon's entire value to me is fast delivery. Definitely not lowest prices, and definitely not quality. Proper back-handed compliment! I'd agree, but adding on that 'customer service' is a key part of their value offering. To me (n=1), it's their moat. I'd be gone without it.

Yes I forgot that point. Their CS is second to none.

Walmart online has a nice return system similar to AMZ - actually even better as they will send a pickup to your house for most things. But if you need a human, good luck getting anything done.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#232

Post by stickfigure »

tablespoon wrote: post #95
D13Fd wrote: post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

> This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. Not really. These companies are basically committing suicide, because Amazon is in such a dominant position. The way is should be is that they could have put pressure on Amazon much earlier, instead of being forced into such extreme action. Nothing will change. Amazon will just…

The thing that will change is that companies considering this kind of work will become aware of the risks. Through articles like this.

The answer may simply be spreading the word.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#233

Post by cartoonworld »

deadbunny wrote: post #226
cartoonworld wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon fronts the startup afiak and controls who gets to start the business. Unionizing this is a tough nut, what you are witnessing is not a usual labor protest--this is a Management protest. The Independent operators are shuttering in protest rather than keep suckling.

If a company pays your startup costs, they are your only "client", they control how much your staff get paid, when they work, and where they work you do not own a business you are an employee with extra steps. Steps that only benefit Amazon.

I guess you're right. Nice "flywheel", huh?

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#234

Post by RHSeeger »

GavinMcG wrote: post #52
wtf_is_up wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is destroying other people's stuff a reasonable response for you being disgruntled at your employer?

It's not about being disgruntled, it's about not wanting your family to go hungry because you were only able to deliver three hundred packages in ten hours by taking extra care. There's a difference between destroying someone's stuff because you hate your job and just not caring about someone's stuff because you want your job.

That exact same argument would hold true for drug dealers, mob enforcers, and a whole variety of people that do bad things. Sure, the mob boss is a bad guy for having the enforcer break someone's shop up; but the enforcer is _also_ a bad guy for doing it.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#235

Post by alisonkisk »

tablespoon wrote: post #95
D13Fd wrote: post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

> This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. Not really. These companies are basically committing suicide, because Amazon is in such a dominant position. The way is should be is that they could have put pressure on Amazon much earlier, instead of being forced into such extreme action. Nothing will change. Amazon will just…

Businesses can die. They aren't people.

People can find other work.

If suckers are happy, they aren't suckers. Of they aren't happy, they should refuse the job.

Amazon can pay for what they need or shut down.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#236

Post by reaperducer »

veerabadhra wrote: post #190
paulpauper wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freelancing just sounds awful for this reason. Yeah some ppl can make a lot but still seems like an awful way to make money if you are an american. Consulting is somewhat different

In any business to business contract, don't be afraid to negotiate aggressive payment terms. I learned that the hard way with my first client being net-15. The higher the payment takes the settle, the more trade credit you are offering your client, increasing their PAYDEX score while messing with your cash flow. Ask for at least half up front.

Or hire a factoring company to take the risk out of it for you. Some banks provide this service. Sure, they take a percentage, but for a one man band, it's often worth the pace of mind to offload this work to a professional.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#238

Post by missedthecue »

Robotbeat wrote: post #227
missedthecue wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you cherrypick 1969 and not 1955 where the equivalent number would be $5 an hour today?

Pretty obvious, isn’t it? Doesn’t it kind of go without saying that we should progress as a society beyond high water marks set over 50 years ago? Heck, I’ll do one better. Why not pick 1890? “Workers should be paid less today than in 1969” is a sort of crazy thing to say out loud, but here we are.

You take a statistical outlier, apply a metric like pay/productivity, and then tie that to the minimum wage, and make a moral statement that therefore, it should be at xyz level today.

That seems like tortured analysis. If you take 1989 which was 20 years after your date, the minimum wage adjusted for today would be $6.78.

And there is no reason whatsoever that pay has ever been or should be tied to productivity. Humans haven't evolved to become better or faster or more adept in a workplace. We have technology. I don't see why I should pay employees more than before because simply because I also invested in some technology that makes allows them to get more work done with less effort. I see no logic in that at all.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#239

Post by alisonkisk »

bombcar wrote: post #118
tablespoon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is collective bargaining so weak in this industry? I think because small companies, not workers are the actors here. If the companies themselves got together, it might be interpreted as some kind of illegal cartel. However, it's kind of interesting to consider the idea of a union of small companies (that's permitted only because they're too week vis-a-vis their customers/vendors that they can be explioted, akin…

Cartels are illegal, but industry associations are not. It's a fine line, but it can certainly be walked.

Unions are legal too.

No workers, no delivery company.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#240

Post by somethoughts »

relax88 wrote: post #98
tablespoon wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. Not really. These companies are basically committing suicide, because Amazon is in such a dominant position. The way is should be is that they could have put pressure on Amazon much earlier, instead of being forced into such extreme action. Nothing will change. Amazon will just…

> It’s not like there’s a club of past & future delivery company operators that meets regularly Why not? “National Delivery Drivers Union” sounds pretty good to me for a name. If you want to negotiate with leverage against Amazon, you need to actually have the leverage. Why is collective bargaining so weak in this industry?

Interesting - it could almost be like the National Association of Realtors. Perhaps similar to the National Association developed MLS and the backend APIs for Redfin and Zillow to access, a National Delivery Drivers Association could develop some sort of backend/API for facilitating delivery driver transactions for its members.
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