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Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

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Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#51

Wow, I guess I never really paid attention to the details behind all the Amazon headlines I see. "In April, Amazon announced it would reduce the amount it paid for drivers from $17.25 to $16.00 an hour, according to the letter...Weeks later, Amazon announced a series of raises for its drivers around the country as part of a public relations push following a union drive at an Amazon warehouse" "Currently, Amazon deliv…

Yes and hence like warehouse workers not taking bathroom breaks for fear of being "off-task" Amazon drivers cut corners too. I have seen them blowing through stop signs, and one of them after blowing through a stop sign, ripped a three point turn and came within one foot of my car before my beeping stopped them. I called Amazon and they of course speak of them like they are some completely separate affiliate that has…

>> I called Amazon and they of course speak of them like they are some completely separate affiliate that has nothing to do with them.

This by design:

Amazon has repeatedly said in court that it is not responsible for the actions of its contractors, citing agreements that require them, as one puts it, to “defend, indemnify and hold harmless Amazon.” Just last week, an operations manager for Amazon testified in Chicago that it signs such agreements with all its “delivery service partners,” who assume the liability and the responsibility for legal costs. The agreements cover “all loss or damage to personal property or bodily harm including death.”

Amazon vigilantly enforces the terms of those agreements. In New Jersey, when a contractor’s insurer failed to pay Amazon’s legal bills in a suit brought by a physician injured in a crash, Amazon sued to force the insurer to pick up the tab. In California, the company sued contractors, telling courts that any damages arising from crashes there should be billed to the delivery companies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/us/amazon-delivery-driver...

The whole article was pretty shocking to read. I rarely, if ever buy stuff on Amazon now that I know how they've attempted to wall themselves off from responsibility of what happens with these companies.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#52
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And throw packages like they don't care, as they should.

How is destroying other people's stuff a reasonable response for you being disgruntled at your employer?

It's not about being disgruntled, it's about not wanting your family to go hungry because you were only able to deliver three hundred packages in ten hours by taking extra care.

There's a difference between destroying someone's stuff because you hate your job and just not caring about someone's stuff because you want your job.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#53
post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

Good points. But, with Amazon taking the lion’s share of online sales, how much of delivery is left outside of Amazon?

I am not advocating for Amazon, just wondering if this move is sustainable for the employees while Amazon gets (theoretically) strong armed.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#54
post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

I suspect Amazon delivery will turn into Tyson and its chicken growers. Just keep selling the business to a new group of people who cannot leave because of their substantial investment in equipment.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#55
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And throw packages like they don't care, as they should.

How is destroying other people's stuff a reasonable response for you being disgruntled at your employer?

I presume they mean due to only having such a short time to deliver, they aren't paid to expend time on being careful, rather than malice.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#56
I don't get Amazon's play here. Just charge me more money for items, and pay your people well. I'd rather have a happy safe driver than a miserable one at the end of his or her rope, all so I could save a dollar.

Reminds me of Papa John complaining giving his employees healthcare would make prices go up 14 cents per pizza. Seriously? Who cares about 14 cents when ordering a pizza...

Amazon's entire value to me is fast delivery. Definitely not lowest prices, and definitely not quality.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#57
post #7

Wow, I guess I never really paid attention to the details behind all the Amazon headlines I see. "In April, Amazon announced it would reduce the amount it paid for drivers from $17.25 to $16.00 an hour, according to the letter...Weeks later, Amazon announced a series of raises for its drivers around the country as part of a public relations push following a union drive at an Amazon warehouse" "Currently, Amazon deliv…

A lot of corporate gains have been at a cost of squeezing on labor resources in some form or another, either time, lower comp, higher productivity, etc. or some combination of these elements. There has been some innovation in general technology making improvements for labor but a lot is really just doing more, for less, and someone else pocketing the gains. You need look no further than AWS treatment of SEs in their…

> You need look no further than AWS treatment of SEs in their PIP culture to see this.

Curious if you or someone else can expound further on this?

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#58
Clickbait title, it sounds like it's some huge movement, but I take their point.

It seems to me that the underlying issue isn't some sort of highly predatory company (Amazon in this case), a lot of them are or were.

The main trick is the ability to surveil and analyze employee activity. Imagine a 1950's auto factory where every location, utterance, and move by a worker could be gathered and parsed.

I'd say that programmers will get a good healthy dose of that going forward and WFH gave it a good healthy shove.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and hence like warehouse workers not taking bathroom breaks for fear of being "off-task" Amazon drivers cut corners too. I have seen them blowing through stop signs, and one of them after blowing through a stop sign, ripped a three point turn and came within one foot of my car before my beeping stopped them. I called Amazon and they of course speak of them like they are some completely separate affiliate that has…

>> I called Amazon and they of course speak of them like they are some completely separate affiliate that has nothing to do with them. This by design: Amazon has repeatedly said in court that it is not responsible for the actions of its contractors, citing agreements that require them, as one puts it, to “defend, indemnify and hold harmless Amazon.” Just last week, an operations manager for Amazon testified in Chicag…

If you or I hire a company to ship a package, we are not generally responsible if the driver the shipper hires runs someone over. This same construct should apply at scale.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#60
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And throw packages like they don't care, as they should.

How is destroying other people's stuff a reasonable response for you being disgruntled at your employer?

They're not getting paid to care, why should they?
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