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Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

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Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#161

Post by cartoonworld »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #90
D13Fd wrote: post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

Or Amazon can just buy them and make it work.

They don't have to. Amazon has a sweetheart deal going on, there is no downside.

Amazon outsources the insurance, health, org, and most of the business risk to these sole supplier contractors. They can choke them to death and just say, "Welp, time to fund another one" until they get the results they want.

Only Amazon can determine which results are acceptable due to these arrangements.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#162

Post by barbecue_sauce »

DiffEq wrote: post #40
tech-historian wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assertion is silly. The headline is fine, and this qualifies as news. By your logic, if a US Senator quits, it wouldn't be news because it's only 1% of US Senators?

I think it is not silly because when I read that headline it made it sound to me as if this was a problem/trend. In reality the story is about 2 companies...which could be a problem if those two companies deliver 50% of the packages but it isn't. But it still might be an article worth writing and reading if the reasons they shut down are matters of justice or some other noble cause or just because Amazon Inc are a bu…

The headline is completely accurate. "Amazon Delivery Companies", which does not imply all or many. "Revolt Against Amazon, Shut Down", they revolted against Amazon by shutting down. Headlines do not contain all of the details of a story. That is what an article is for.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#163

Post by cartoonworld »

commandlinefan wrote: post #125
HighInquisitor wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to grasp how this kind of libertarian vision of the world can possibly be maintained by anyone who actually observes how the world works. No, markets don't self-regulate. Companies won't stop working with Amazon across the board, and those that do will be replaced by companies willing to work for less, because they're full of people willing to work for less. We know that's how this works. We know that peop…

> markets don't self-regulate The linked article is an example of the market self-regulating.

>The linked article is an example of the market self-regulating.

This is incorrect. Amazon controls the market, as the indie contractors are created out of Amazon's pockets, and Amazon solely determines the operational practices, business demand and contractual rules.

If you, by "Free Market Self-Regulation", mean "Monopsony Risk-Arbitrage by a Multinational Giant" well, now I'm on board.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#165

Post by mnd999 »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #90
D13Fd wrote: post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

Or Amazon can just buy them and make it work.

That would make the drivers Amazon employees so they'd no longer be able to use the "it's not us, it's the delivery firms" defense.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#166

Post by maccard »

herbst wrote: post #120
ckdarby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you using that is even close to the same, offers a similar return guarantees and contactless due to covid?

I guess you ask for America, but in Europe you get this basically everywhere because it's manifested in our customer protection laws.

Returns are a nightmare in practice. I ordered a jacket from the manufacturers website and had to return it because it was stained on arrival. Unfortunately for me, their courier of choice is on the wrong side of town for me, and only has one drop off office open between 9 and 5 Monday to Friday.

This was also over the Christmas period, so when I returned it I was asked to pay customs charges (thanks brexit), and it took the guts of a month from the initial order to refund.

You don't know in advance whether you're going to have that sort of experience with a manufacturer, or whrther it will be easy, but with Amazon they accept returns at a post office and you send it to your own country which skiets all the issues above.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#168

Post by paulpauper »

DiffEq wrote: post #40
tech-historian wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assertion is silly. The headline is fine, and this qualifies as news. By your logic, if a US Senator quits, it wouldn't be news because it's only 1% of US Senators?

I think it is not silly because when I read that headline it made it sound to me as if this was a problem/trend. In reality the story is about 2 companies...which could be a problem if those two companies deliver 50% of the packages but it isn't. But it still might be an article worth writing and reading if the reasons they shut down are matters of justice or some other noble cause or just because Amazon Inc are a bu…

I felt misled as well . 2 quitting out of 2000 is hardly a revolt.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#169

Post by missedthecue »

Robotbeat wrote: post #139
HarryHirsch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if the high-tech solution didn't have to be maintained? Anyway, that's what cheap labour does, it leads to stagnation. Why invest in to improve the state of the art when you can throw more bodies at the problem? There's also the other problem: Jeff Bezos strip-mines the workforce and takes the gains to Washington. Meanwhile his underpaid employees can't invest in their own communities.

I truly believe that increasing the minimum wage (at first just to the same as the 1960s, ie about $12.20/hour, and then adjusting for productivity growth since 1969 to about $20/hour), especially if combined with policies to maintain full employment, Will lead to dramatic increases in productivity as companies are finally forced to properly value human labor. The increase in productivity well help pay for minimum wa…

Why do you cherrypick 1969 and not 1955 where the equivalent number would be $5 an hour today?

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#170

Post by gruez »

bombcar wrote: post #118
tablespoon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is collective bargaining so weak in this industry? I think because small companies, not workers are the actors here. If the companies themselves got together, it might be interpreted as some kind of illegal cartel. However, it's kind of interesting to consider the idea of a union of small companies (that's permitted only because they're too week vis-a-vis their customers/vendors that they can be explioted, akin…

Cartels are illegal, but industry associations are not. It's a fine line, but it can certainly be walked.

What can an "industry association" do to pressure amazon?
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