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Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

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Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#121

Post by crmd »

IncRnd wrote: post #83
at-fates-hands wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I called Amazon and they of course speak of them like they are some completely separate affiliate that has nothing to do with them. This by design: Amazon has repeatedly said in court that it is not responsible for the actions of its contractors, citing agreements that require them, as one puts it, to “defend, indemnify and hold harmless Amazon.” Just last week, an operations manager for Amazon testified in Chicag…

If you hire a contractor to perform work on your house, and during their contract they happen to burn down one neighbor's house and destroy the wall of a separate neighbor's house - you will not be liable for their actions. If you think that Amazon should be liable for the actions of their contracted drivers, you would likewise be liable for burning down and destroying your neighbor's houses.

The “homeowner” here is analogous to an outside investor in Amazon (like me) who has no operational role in the company. The entity who directs the the manner in which subcontractors work, like Amazon does with its delivery companies, is acting as the general contractor and will most surely be named in a lawsuit if anything they did or did not do plausibly contributed to the fire.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#122

Post by LightG »

axaxs wrote: post #56

I don't get Amazon's play here. Just charge me more money for items, and pay your people well. I'd rather have a happy safe driver than a miserable one at the end of his or her rope, all so I could save a dollar. Reminds me of Papa John complaining giving his employees healthcare would make prices go up 14 cents per pizza. Seriously? Who cares about 14 cents when ordering a pizza... Amazon's entire value to me is fas…

>>Amazon's entire value to me is fast delivery. Definitely not lowest prices, and definitely not quality.

Proper back-handed compliment! I'd agree, but adding on that 'customer service' is a key part of their value offering. To me (n=1), it's their moat. I'd be gone without it.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#123

Post by commandlinefan »

relax88 wrote: post #98
tablespoon wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. Not really. These companies are basically committing suicide, because Amazon is in such a dominant position. The way is should be is that they could have put pressure on Amazon much earlier, instead of being forced into such extreme action. Nothing will change. Amazon will just…

> It’s not like there’s a club of past & future delivery company operators that meets regularly Why not? “National Delivery Drivers Union” sounds pretty good to me for a name. If you want to negotiate with leverage against Amazon, you need to actually have the leverage. Why is collective bargaining so weak in this industry?

> National Delivery Drivers Union

Actually, they're called the teamsters and they've been around since the 1800's.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#124

Post by yawaworht1978 »

criddell wrote: post #12

> "We refused their demands and they followed through with their threat, terminating their contract with us, leaving their employees confused and looking for answers," she continued. "We’re doing everything we can to support the affected employees including connecting them with other Delivery Service Partners in the area who are hiring.” I'd love for that PR person to drive the route one day and see if they can meet…

One time in my younger days I had a delivery job in London, i would start at 3am , and needed to have the northern part covered before 7am as the traffic after that would slow me down to reach the south. Boss covered all speeding ticket expenses and parking tickets, the job was not possible without permanent speeding and good luck finding parking in London for a van. Every day I did one or two hours overtime, thinking it's paid. When payday came i demanded the overtime pay and he said "that's not overtime, you are slow". So I gave him the keys to the van and said "show me the way". He tried for a morning, took away to long before returning me the keys and agreeing to ot pay. I didn't really need the job, was just extra summer money, but I can see how many people who have a family to feed would accept with a tight lip and not complain.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#125

Post by commandlinefan »

HighInquisitor wrote: post #115
D13Fd wrote: post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

I struggle to grasp how this kind of libertarian vision of the world can possibly be maintained by anyone who actually observes how the world works. No, markets don't self-regulate. Companies won't stop working with Amazon across the board, and those that do will be replaced by companies willing to work for less, because they're full of people willing to work for less. We know that's how this works. We know that peop…

> markets don't self-regulate

The linked article is an example of the market self-regulating.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#126

Post by pessimizer »

relax88 wrote: post #87
Workaccount2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cancelled my prime this year after 15 years. I'm surprised this hasn't become a more visible trend. Amazon has no shortage of shitty practices, but it seems very few people actually care.

I don’t think people should have to care. They are customers. They want to buy things and have them delivered for a good price. Why is the consumer or shareholder being asked to solve a legislative problem? Buying consumer goods shouldn’t be a political statement. It’s just ignoring the actual problem of insufficient legal protections for workers. If Amazon can orchestrate a scheme in which they subcontract deliverie…

If I owned a hypothetical number of actual slaves that allowed me to give you a great bargain on cotton, no matter what political action you take while you use me as your sole supplier of cotton, it will not be effective. All of the alternative sources of cotton will gradually go bankrupt or convert to my model, and I'll use the money you send me to shut you down politically.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#127

Post by jmeister »

Frost1x wrote: post #7
blakesterz wrote: post #2

Wow, I guess I never really paid attention to the details behind all the Amazon headlines I see. "In April, Amazon announced it would reduce the amount it paid for drivers from $17.25 to $16.00 an hour, according to the letter...Weeks later, Amazon announced a series of raises for its drivers around the country as part of a public relations push following a union drive at an Amazon warehouse" "Currently, Amazon deliv…

A lot of corporate gains have been at a cost of squeezing on labor resources in some form or another, either time, lower comp, higher productivity, etc. or some combination of these elements. There has been some innovation in general technology making improvements for labor but a lot is really just doing more, for less, and someone else pocketing the gains. You need look no further than AWS treatment of SEs in their…

> corporate gains

What about customers? They seem to be happy to ignore how the sausage is made, to have stuff delivered to their doorsteps cheap and fast.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#128

Post by tablespoon »

IncRnd wrote: post #96
criddell wrote: post #12

> "We refused their demands and they followed through with their threat, terminating their contract with us, leaving their employees confused and looking for answers," she continued. "We’re doing everything we can to support the affected employees including connecting them with other Delivery Service Partners in the area who are hiring.” I'd love for that PR person to drive the route one day and see if they can meet…

Which words in that statement are contemptuous?

> Which words in that statement are contemptuous?

Not so much words, but the attitude it displays. It lies and stretches the truth to make it look like these companies are behaving irrationally and destructively and that Amazon is the good guy who cares.

It shows contempt for those companies, and contempt for the listener (because they expect us to believe it)

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#129

Post by smhenderson »

commandlinefan wrote: post #123
relax88 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not like there’s a club of past & future delivery company operators that meets regularly Why not? “National Delivery Drivers Union” sounds pretty good to me for a name. If you want to negotiate with leverage against Amazon, you need to actually have the leverage. Why is collective bargaining so weak in this industry?

> National Delivery Drivers Union Actually, they're called the teamsters and they've been around since the 1800's.

The Teamsters represent employees, individuals that is. Not small companies.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#130

Post by nicetryguy »

bserge wrote: post #113
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #111

Strive to be Earth’s Best Employer Leaders work every day to create a safer, more productive, higher performing, more diverse, and more just work environment. They lead with empathy, have fun at work, and make it easy for others to have fun. Leaders ask themselves: Are my fellow employees growing? Are they empowered? Are they ready for what’s next? Leaders have a vision for and commitment to their employees’ personal…

Eh, Google promised to never put ads before user experience in Search. Now the first full screen on mobile is just ads disguised as search results. Do no evil or something.

"Nevermind We're Actually Evil Now"
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