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Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

bbc.co.uk

231–240 of 256 posts

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#231
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that, while its clear it is an example, it would be preferable to use "XXX is a paedophile" as the example text than the parents username. It would come off as less aggressive and less directed at the parent, which with such an accusation, even as an example, is rather jarring.

I don't really see the problem to be honest? I don't see how it's aggressive? (and it's too late to edit it now anyway, so not all that much I can do about it now anyway).

I used to have deep conversations as a teenager with some of my friends, and on occasion I would say something as an argument, like "suppose I threatened to kick your ass." I meant no ill intent by it, it was an example of bad behavior used in discussion. But on a couple of occasions it was taken as a veiled threat, like I was getting upset with the discussion. Technically I did nothing wrong there, but later I came to see why it would be taken that way sometimes by some people, and stopped doing it.

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#232
post #13

Reading the article is important here. The person that was being sued is settling (paying a 6-figure sum) and staying anonymous. They could have fought they case, but they apparently had enough money and were worried about being outed, that it was worth just paying and hiding.

Or - something else happened. The plaintiff is a radio presenter, and it's easy to Google him. It's one thing to make a personally defamatory accusation. It's something else to launch a high profile libel trial with alleged political overtones in a very tense and scarred part of the world with recent riots. Clearly, we're not going to get the full details of this story.

UK news sources are subject to injunctions.

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#233
post #220
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I have no information about the specific topic of alleged CTH bots/“bots”. I’m not asserting that any particular group is using bots. I’m just speaking generally about the topic of what counts as “bots” and what doesn’t.) I kind of feel that in a case where there are many accounts using identical text (which is too long to be identical by coincidence) (e.g. in replies to something), it is probably fair to call these…

Interesting. I do consider accounts managed by paid astroturfers who manually write replies from multiple accounts with different identities "bots" but maybe that is a misnomer. "Sock-puppet-masters"? Copy-paste reply bots are clearly "bots" IMO - but these seem to be falling out of favor because pointing out many identical replies tends to be a very effective "dunk" on the idea they are promoting. Someone found scre…

I suppose if “bot” came to refer separately to mass-sockpuppeting as well as to automated messages, that wouldn’t really be that unfortunate of a change in the meaning of the phrase, so I could accept it.

I would prefer things that don’t have any significant automation to them be called something related to sockpuppets than bots, but sockpuppet is unwieldy because it is much longer, both in speech and in writing, so if there is no abbreviation for “sockpuppet”/“sockpuppet master” which is convenient, easily understandable, and feels right to use, then I guess that could be justification enough to call them “bots” despite there being little automation to it.

Regardless, I think the big issue is how people can use these techniques to massively overrepresent how common certain views are compared to other views, regardless of whether it uses any automation. (Because of this, when I make multiple accounts on some service which I keep separate from one-another, which isn’t often, I try to say in my user profiles roughly how many other accounts I have on the service, to avoid contributing to this problem. This has only come up on one website for me though.)

(Also many-account auto-liking would qualify as “being bots” in the narrow sense IMO even if the tweets were all manual. And automation certainly makes the problem bigger.)

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#234
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no question that the UK's speech laws are abusive, especially to American sensibilities. You can find stories of people being arrested for calling a police horse "gay", or saying "woof" to a police dog, or the guy who taught his girlfriend's dog to respond to Seig Heil to troll her, or the 19 y/o who quoted a Snoop Dogg lyric on her Instagram page, or the guy sent to _jail_ for leaving anti-religion cartoons…

I don't think you're giving a great summary of these stories. The first two are related to personal defamation: * Police horse and dog: people could be arrested for "threatening, abusive or insulting" speech in public at the time. The police, being wankers, overused their discretion on "insulting" speech and so the law was changed in 2013 to remove "insulting" as a criterion. https://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/16/you-…

Thanks for the details, I was mentioning them from memory as well as eliding some details for brevity (though none that I thought changed the nature of my point).

> Police horse and dog: people could be arrested for "threatening, abusive or insulting" speech in public at the time. The police, being wankers, overused their discretion on "insulting" speech and so the law was changed in 2013 to remove "insulting" as a criterion.

Yes, this is consistent with my point. Abuse of the spirit of any law is a given, and it's part of what goes into assessment of whether a law is wise or not. It would be great if we could pass laws that could identify and laser-target "bad" speech in perpetuity with no potential for abuse, but that's just now how law works and proneness to abuse is a central part of the criticism.

> [count dankula and snoop Dogg lyric]

In what way my summary misleading? I think perhaps we have different notions of what's relevant here. Training a dog to react to "gas the jews" isn't categorically different from training a dog to respond to seig Heil with a nazi salute. In fact, it's the exact same joke.

> The guy repeatedly left the cartoons in airport _prayer-rooms_.

I was mistaken about this story, thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure where I got the impression that it occurred in restrooms.

>Downplaying the parts people actually got angry about makes it seem like you're complaining about the people getting angry about the actions rather than the trials and punishments.

This is a pretty wild assumption about ny motivations. Your descriptions are as easily described as "downplaying" the relative triviality of the acts: in the case of Dankula, you mention "gas the jews" without mentioning that it was a trigger word for another dog trick (use/mention distinction), and in the case of the snoop Dogg lyric, you leave out 1) that "she copied the lyrics from a friend’s Instagram account, which were used by thousands of people to pay tribute to Frankie Murphy" and 2) the complaints centered entirely on use of the word "nigga", which is even more ridiculous than the violent content (as her lawyer pointed out, should Jay-Z be fined for using the same language during a Glastonbury performance?)

Though I don't think the reason you left these out is because you're trying to mislead: your focus was "why people were angry", and mine was "how absurd the incidents are to the sensibilities of citizens of a country with robust speech protections". Whether or not people get angry is immaterial to my point, which is the exact opposite of caring enough about their anger to downplay it. The absurdity comes from the idea that it's workable for the state to be coordinating speech at such a ridiculously low level.

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no question that the UK's speech laws are abusive, especially to American sensibilities. You can find stories of people being arrested for calling a police horse "gay", or saying "woof" to a police dog, or the guy who taught his girlfriend's dog to respond to Seig Heil to troll her, or the 19 y/o who quoted a Snoop Dogg lyric on her Instagram page, or the guy sent to _jail_ for leaving anti-religion cartoons…

With regards to the Nazi dog your facts are wrong. He taught the dog to respond to the phrase "Do you wanna gas the Jews"

> With regards to the Nazi dog your facts are wrong. He taught the dog to respond to the phrase "Do you wanna gas the Jews"

No, your facts are wrong. He taught the dog to perform a nazi salute upon hearing the command Seig Heil, _and_ to bark upon hearing "gas the jews". The description of his video is only a couple of sentences long on Wikipedia.

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#236
post #233
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I do consider accounts managed by paid astroturfers who manually write replies from multiple accounts with different identities "bots" but maybe that is a misnomer. "Sock-puppet-masters"? Copy-paste reply bots are clearly "bots" IMO - but these seem to be falling out of favor because pointing out many identical replies tends to be a very effective "dunk" on the idea they are promoting. Someone found scre…

I suppose if “bot” came to refer separately to mass-sockpuppeting as well as to automated messages, that wouldn’t really be that unfortunate of a change in the meaning of the phrase, so I could accept it. I would prefer things that don’t have any significant automation to them be called something related to sockpuppets than bots, but sockpuppet is unwieldy because it is much longer, both in speech and in writing, so…

Personally, I tend to just call those "fake" accounts. Fake, in the sense that the person behind that account is someone other than who they are claiming to be - whether that is a specific human being with a name and a picture, or just an anonymous, discrete individual who is distinct from anyone else already involved in the conversation.

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#238
post #175
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially it's a piece curved out of a country where descendants of occupants exceed in number native population. Of course it's occupied for so long that now it's "their own", still doesn't change the fact that it was occupied and not treated equally historically in the first place.

Hacker News on Northern Ireland is worse than Hacker News on CSS. Which is saying a lot.

[deleted]

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#239
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want them to say United Kingdom, then say it. Obscure one word comments aren't useful or transparent.

Well, the ancestor has a point, sort of. England conquered Wales, Scotland, and a bunch of other parts of the Earth, and only grudgingly became the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Historically, its relationship with everyone else in Britain, much less the rest of the world, have been somewhat strained. By the way, any news on the Scottish independence thing?

England didn't annex Scotland after an invasion. Scotland agreed to a union after their economy got rekt by a failed colonisation scheme and a famine.

Re: Twitter 'troll' to pay six-figure sum

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Great majority"? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Northern_Ireland#V... . " ...have been in Norther Ireland from the 1600s. " Not that it matters to anyone, but the Plantation of Ulster would likely be considered a war crime under article 49 of the 4th Geneva Convention.

> Not that it matters to anyone, but the Plantation of Ulster would likely be considered a war crime under article 49 of the 4th Geneva Convention. Well, probably not, given that none of the states who were, or whose territory was, involved were parties to Geneva Convention (IV) of 1949 at the time.

I think the implication is that if it happened today it would be considered a war crime.
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