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HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

asiatimes.com

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#301

Post by tablespoon »

karmasimida wrote: post #102
someperson wrote: post #7

The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an incre…

Trump tried to raise 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods, and that is about the most effective way to implement the boycott with scale that can't be matched. And it didn't work really. China's export to US and the world is at all-time high, and guess who is paying for those tariffs?

> And it didn't work really. China's export to US and the world is at all-time high, and guess who is paying for those tariffs?

Trump had the kernel of the right idea, but the actual goal in his mind was stupid (get a better "deal") and his execution sloppy and haphazard.

A better implementation would be to ratchet up tariffs slowly, and send the certain message: "policy has changed, go all in towards adjusting your supply chains now or be fucked."

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#302

Post by tablespoon »

2xpress wrote: post #71
northwest65 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a better way would be to stop selling them food. We still want to buy Apple products, but they need to buy food.

Stop selling food?? That's just evil! It's ok to sell food, and every dollar they spend of food is one less for ballistic missiles.

> Stop selling food?? That's just evil!

It's also stupid. What did the PRC do in response to US tariffs? Voluntarily stop buying US food.

The PRC doesn't need US food, it can buy what it needs elsewhere (e.g. soybeans from Brazil instead of Illinois).

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#303

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Dah00n wrote: post #174
mrwww wrote: post #152

The CCP does not represent Chinese people and its sickening that they are so hell bent on controlling all of them.

You can swap out CCP/China in your comment with pretty much any government/country though.

For all its flaws, the US government does not try to control US citizens to the degree that the CCP tries to control Chinese citizens.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#304

Post by AnimalMuppet »

hoseja wrote: post #94
bpodgursky wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither was Ukraine.

Huh? What feature of the steppe Ukraine lays on makes it difficult to invade?

It's hard to walk on. You have to watch your... steppe.

Right, I'll show myself out...

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#305

Post by wolverine876 »

dumb1224 wrote: post #294
wolverine876 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you read the article and are the readers of the mentioned media outlets you would agree a bit that those are a little dubious (Post852, Winandmac Media etc, Apple Daily included). It's definitely not good to have a sweeping ban, but pretending all non-mainland chinese media is pro democracy and liberal values and not populist (sometimes provocative and radicalised) to attract viewers is a little naive in my…

That's quite an elevated take of my comment. I never implied they are 'sin' or telling people what to think (it would be a compliment as I'm usually not very persuasive). I'm just stating that I have limited sympathy for them as they are not as credible as you think. Any chinese will know for sure they will be shut for some reason such as crossing a redline. Whether that's right or wrong it's your judgement. There ar…

> they are not as credible as you think

Again, how do you know what I think? I'm not as dumb as you think.

> Any chinese will know for sure they will be shut for some reason such as crossing a redline. Whether that's right or wrong it's your judgement.

It's not my judgement, it's a matter of human rights. Whether I judge it so or not, those people have a right to act and speak freely. It's not up to me (or you or the CCP).

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#306

Post by etaioinshrdlu »

tablespoon wrote: post #299
Seattle3503 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better.

> Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better. Yeah, it should be phrased as a welcome (e.g. come here, we want to take you), not a warning (flee now).

I'd like to welcome the people of HK into my own country but it seems presumptuous to speak for an entire country myself.

At least the UK government has made public overtures indicating a path to citizenship for HK people.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#307

Post by wolverine876 »

dumb1224 wrote: post #282
wolverine876 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm afraid nobody has perfect information. People in mainland China read anything with filters and are aware of what's really going on, so I don't think it should be that different elsewhere. That's a false equivalency, like saying 'people in Pyonyang aren't perfectly free, nor are people in New York, so it's basically the same.' It's not at all the same.

I didn't equate anything to anything. I simply pointed out that no one has perfect information. What you read about China might be a mix of many true and false (maybe exaggerated) information. I'm not even comparing different population. If I wasn't clear then I apologise.

> I simply pointed out that no one has perfect information. What you read about China might be a mix of many true and false (maybe exaggerated) information.

Unless you are drawing an equivalency between the CCP censored and created information on one hand, and the New York Times and Jonathan Spence on the other, I don't see what the point is.

'No information is perfect'? A similar claim is, 'no composer writes flawless music', but that tells us nothing about anything; it fails even to distinguish between Bach and me.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#308

Post by lucian1900 »

tablespoon wrote: post #298
throwaway316943 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble seems to be that Taiwan is a government in exile, having lost to the CCP. Recognizing a government in exile is very different from recognizing the independence of state. If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized.

> If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized. Which is a PRC red line, oddly enough. Taiwan renouncing its claims would be interpreted as rejecting the one China policy.

The PRC also claims the entirety of China, including the island of Taiwan. It’s not at all surprising that two sides of a civil war would claim the same territory. The one thing both the PRC and the KMT agree on is the definition of China.

The idea of Taiwan as separate from China is fairly recent and not widespread within Taiwan, at least so far.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#309

Post by dumb1224 »

hkmaxpro wrote: post #295
dumb1224 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite an elevated take of my comment. I never implied they are 'sin' or telling people what to think (it would be a compliment as I'm usually not very persuasive). I'm just stating that I have limited sympathy for them as they are not as credible as you think. Any chinese will know for sure they will be shut for some reason such as crossing a redline. Whether that's right or wrong it's your judgement. There ar…

Can you define “dubious” and “crossing a redline” (so that they need to be shut) according to HK laws? Without a precise definition we cannot have a fruitful discussion.

It is quite obvious they belong to a more sensationalism type of tabloid media. I refer them as 'dubious' due to this credibility issue. I may be wrong but there are definitely evidence of misinformation https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/risj-review/hong-...

Sure in a western democracy it's fine (given that there's at least some alignment with party interest). But once it gets a lot of attention and an influencer status then the authoritarian gov won't let it grow further without consequences for sure. 'Redline' is a bad term but it's usually separatist, discrimination speech etc. Not all 'pro-democracy' media are targeted because they are simply not big enough yet.

Disclaimer: I'm not necessarily defending any side, just want to discuss more nuances.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#310

Post by dumb1224 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #307
dumb1224 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't equate anything to anything. I simply pointed out that no one has perfect information. What you read about China might be a mix of many true and false (maybe exaggerated) information. I'm not even comparing different population. If I wasn't clear then I apologise.

> I simply pointed out that no one has perfect information. What you read about China might be a mix of many true and false (maybe exaggerated) information. Unless you are drawing an equivalency between the CCP censored and created information on one hand, and the New York Times and Jonathan Spence on the other, I don't see what the point is. 'No information is perfect'? A similar claim is, 'no composer writes flawle…

Sorry again, I meant 'no one knows all the correct information'. I don't understand why you are so fond of comparison. Fine, I'll attempt one. What you read on New York Times about China could be high recall but low precision; and what I read from chinese sources (not necessarily press) may be high precision but low recall (not sure if I got it right...laugh).
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