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HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#71

Post by 2xpress »

northwest65 wrote: post #10
someperson wrote: post #7

The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an incre…

Maybe a better way would be to stop selling them food. We still want to buy Apple products, but they need to buy food.

Stop selling food?? That's just evil!

It's ok to sell food, and every dollar they spend of food is one less for ballistic missiles.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#72

Post by dismantlethesun »

est wrote: post #29
puppymaster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposedly, there were even handbooks on how to crush these protests. Look at Belarus, Myanmar and Iran. So far the oppressors are winning.

Hong Kong’s Police Violence Is Stamped ‘Made in U.K.’ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/18/hong-kongs-police-viole... Bonus: > the techniques were on full display in British police violence against miners during the 1984-1985 strike

Are you implying that the current Chinese government should be forgiven for abusing its citizens because the British did something similar 35 years ago?

I don’t mean to offend, but your comment is so short that I can tell what kind of context you are trying to add.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#74

Post by nine_k »

wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

I remember a good thought experiment. Gandhi's peaceful protests were successful because they impressed the British public via free press, and the public opinion affected the British government.

Now imagine that instead of post-war British, the colonial regime were held by their contemporary Stalin. How much would a peaceful protest achieve?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#76

Post by guerrilla »

TeeMassive wrote: post #63
naniwaduni wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence; Are they? Remember, a successful violent "protest" is often just retroactively called by a different name, like "revolution" or "coup d'état", it's not as if they're fundamentally different things. How do you compare those to successful peaceful protests?

There are many fundamental difference between standing armies and/or organized militias and violent mobs in terms of scale, martial effectiveness, negotiations, treaties and post-conflict continuation. Mobs don't win wars, they merely destroy and the rest is left to fate, often with disastrous results(see Libya as an example). Mobs can't sit at the negotiation table Mobs can't agree to treaties and enforce them Mobs…

> Mobs don't win wars, they merely destroy and the rest is left to fate

You seriously can't think of any counterexamples to that? Like maybe some French (contemporary and historical), German or Russian counterexamples?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#77

Post by baybal2 »

Seirdy wrote: post #61
ILMostro7 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How and why do authoritarian regimes get toppled? Ultimately, capturing hearts and minds of people throigh peaceful protests is beneficial. The question is not whether protests always work directly and timely even. Wheteher or not special interests play a role, the result is easier reached when there's at least a larger audience that may become allied or organized better. To me, it's a fallacy to say that on the one…

> How and why do authoritarian regimes topple? Multiple overlapping reasons, some of which include: - the military overthrows the rest of the executive/legislative powers - Gross incompetence resulting in the government's self-destruction - Financial collapse - Secession - Very strong external pressures (invasion, economic destruction, etc). - Multiple violent insurrections straining executive resources and undermini…

Please take a look on Kim Jong Fat III, and his kingdom.

- multiple military mutinies, now suppressed, check

- the entirety of NK civil administration been sent to firing squad, or gulags multiple times, and rebuilt anew every time it fails

- financial collapse — you will never financially collapse if you can steal

- secession, you cannot secede in NK, even individually. They have machinegunners at the border, shooting everybody trying to run away

- NorKo been under every international sanction imaginable for 70 years.

- There are insurrections in NK almost every day. They are crushed, all, and every.

My point is, dictatorships, and monarchies do not simply topple, they have to be toppled.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#79

Post by guerrilla »

dismantlethesun wrote: post #72
est wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong’s Police Violence Is Stamped ‘Made in U.K.’ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/18/hong-kongs-police-viole... Bonus: > the techniques were on full display in British police violence against miners during the 1984-1985 strike

Are you implying that the current Chinese government should be forgiven for abusing its citizens because the British did something similar 35 years ago? I don’t mean to offend, but your comment is so short that I can tell what kind of context you are trying to add.

No, they are criticizing the UK.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#80

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

vmception wrote: post #67
dillondoyle wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cool article. really long I skimmed it so far. seems focused on comparing economic elite/interest groups to common population, which would skew the policy measured to tangible economic/business outcomes? My first thought to your comment was an opposing example of gay rights. Sure gay marriage was SCOTUS but it first changed as policy at the state level. politicians changed because it became popular enough and strong…

> remember obama was against marriage equality amongst other things at first It is worth remembering that at that time period, which was just 2008, California literally voted to change its constitution to ban gay marriage, which was purely a popular vote which was successful. If you want 55 electoral college votes, you aren't going to be saying things that ensure the opposite outcome. I don't think it is useful to ha…

Exactly this. To effect policy you have to get elected, and Obama knew quite well that supporting gay marriage in 2008 was a big losing proposition.

Regardless of your opinions of Obama's politics, he is not a stupid man. All this nonsense about his position "evolving" is just that, nonsense. Obama was never really against gay marriage, he just needed to have viable positions to get elected.

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