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Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#241

Post by SilverRed »

nine_k wrote: post #112
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home grown tomatoes are typically much better tasting/more flavorful than the store bought ones, so I think there is probably something to this.

Supermarket breeds of vegetables are optimized for good looks and long shelf life. Farmer market vegetables are optimized for flavor, because this is what differentiates them from the supermarket vegetables. This makes the contrast all the more stunning.

Supermarket tomatoes also have thick/hard outsides so they don't turn to mush on the shelves.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#242

Post by orwin »

pembrook wrote: post #233
nerdponx wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, this has been my personal experience. I have gone through phases of my life where I ate a lot of junk food. I would feel constantly hungry during those phases, until I ate something nutritious, green and easily-digestible, like steamed broccoli or green peas.

This doesn’t make any scientific sense. Study after study has shown that protein and complex carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger, not vegetables. This makes sense when you consider most green vegetables like broccoli are 90% water. A meat like chicken, after cooking is only about 60% water. So if you eat 400g of broccoli vs 400g of chicken, the one that will make you feel more full is obviously the protein. Wha…

> Study after study has shown that protein and carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger

Proteins and fat you mean?

Also, incidentally, water do quench hunger as well. My trick to eat less when i was overweight was to drink a lot during meals.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#243

Post by failwhaleshark »

pembrook wrote: post #233
nerdponx wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, this has been my personal experience. I have gone through phases of my life where I ate a lot of junk food. I would feel constantly hungry during those phases, until I ate something nutritious, green and easily-digestible, like steamed broccoli or green peas.

This doesn’t make any scientific sense. Study after study has shown that protein and complex carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger, not vegetables. This makes sense when you consider most green vegetables like broccoli are 90% water. A meat like chicken, after cooking is only about 60% water. So if you eat 400g of broccoli vs 400g of chicken, the one that will make you feel more full is obviously the protein. Wha…

Salad (nothing but vegetables) has the effect of increasing mechanical fullness before a meal.

Plain, boiled potatoes cause the most satiety.

Oranges and oatmeal are also good.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#244

Post by cwp »

lamontcg wrote: post #83

> Magnesium deficiency can be attributed to common dietary practices, medications, and farming techniques, along with estimates that the mineral content of vegetables has declined by as much as 80–90% in the last 100 years. This is why, when people defend GMOs with the argument that we've been genetically modifying plants and animals for hundreds of years by selective breeding, that I don't think that argument leads…

I make that argument, but I would never say "It's all perfectly harmless." The point is that the technique used to produce an organism isn't its self harmful. The question is whether the organism is harmful. Resistance to disease is good. Lower nutrient density is bad. It really doesn't matter whether we got here by selective breeding or modifying genes directly.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#245

Post by nerdponx »

pembrook wrote: post #233
nerdponx wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, this has been my personal experience. I have gone through phases of my life where I ate a lot of junk food. I would feel constantly hungry during those phases, until I ate something nutritious, green and easily-digestible, like steamed broccoli or green peas.

This doesn’t make any scientific sense. Study after study has shown that protein and complex carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger, not vegetables. This makes sense when you consider most green vegetables like broccoli are 90% water. A meat like chicken, after cooking is only about 60% water. So if you eat 400g of broccoli vs 400g of chicken, the one that will make you feel more full is obviously the protein. Wha…

I did clearly state that it was an anecdote, with a sample size of one, myself.

Also I think you're being extremely reductionist here. I'm not claiming that I never felt the sensation of fullness in my stomach. Of course I did. Maybe I should rephrase, that I constantly felt like I was craving food even though my stomach was full.

Moreover, to suggest that our brains somehow only understand macronutrients when it comes to regulating our sense of hunger, is ridiculous. You really think that people feeling better after eating broccoli is because they have been brainwashed by the marketing of the vegetable-industrial complex? is it really that outlandish to hypothesize that eating nutritious food makes you feel better?

Of course it would be fallacious to generalize my experience to other people, if only because I myself hardly understand what was going on. But it would be equally fallacious, not to mention arrogant, to dismiss that such an effect might exist, on the grounds that we did some controlled studies and found that hungry people feel more satisfied after eating something substatial.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#246

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #237
fasteo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to add theanine to the mix in a 2:1 mag:theanine ratio. It will improve you anxiety even further

Just a warning to anyone on anti-seizure or mood stabilizing meds. Theanine can seriously fuck you up because it alters glutamate channels that your medication may also be altering.

I think the warning should be "If you're not a doctor, don't play at one".

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#247

Post by pembrook »

shakabrah wrote: post #236
pembrook wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t make any scientific sense. Study after study has shown that protein and complex carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger, not vegetables. This makes sense when you consider most green vegetables like broccoli are 90% water. A meat like chicken, after cooking is only about 60% water. So if you eat 400g of broccoli vs 400g of chicken, the one that will make you feel more full is obviously the protein. Wha…

Or…you know…vegetables have fiber and meat doesn’t?

Fiber is certainly important, but try eating a diet of only broccoli one day vs a diet of only chicken the next.

You’ll likely feel normal on the chicken day. On the broccoli day you’ll feel like you’re fasting (because on a calorie basis, you literally will be unless you eat 5-7X as much broccoli as you do chicken).

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#248

Post by Mertax »

version_five wrote: post #27

I understand this seems mostly to be about soil depletion. I'm curious more generally if vegetables are also less nutritious because they are selectively bread for high water content and size. For example, its appeared to me for years that you vegetables you get on a Subway sandwich must have almost no nutritional content. They are all way paler than you'd normally see, and super watery. Thinking about it, I suppose…

Some of the products the company I work for develops are specifically for the Ag seed research industry. We develop instruments like on combine weigh systems used to measure weight, moisture and yield of various grain hybrids as they are harvested. From my limited perspective, it appears that for decades this industry has cared most (almost entirely) about breeding hybrids that increase yield in various climates. There has been very little attention paid to other constituents and characteristics of the seed. It’s only been in the last few years that our ag research customers have been interested in breeding for other characteristics. I think in large part this is because it’s not been very cost effective to collect this data (primarily through things like near-infrared spectroscopy mounted on harvesters and drones)

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#249

Post by opportune »

bumby wrote: post #234
opportune wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://thecounter.org/nutrition-labels-meet-recipal/ and https://consolidatedlabel.com/label-articles/how-to-get-a-nu... . The TLDR is not every food needs to be lab tested as long as they can take their ingredients and compare them against national databases (e.g. NCCDB) to estimate nutritional info. And yes, some of the data in those databases is old and perhaps overly general - it's totally reasonable to susp…

It appears the FDA breaks the label down into “mandatory” and “voluntary” categories based on the association of certain nutrients with specific diseases. From your list, vitamin K and magnesium are both voluntary and zinc isn’t included on the standardized label. I assume it’s a business decision by the manufacturer to not include them. https://www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2012-N-1210-0875

Thanks for linking that, there is a lot of interesting information in that document. They provide a rationale for why each nutrient is mandatory or voluntary as well as public comments and rebuttals.

>One comment suggested vitamin D fortification should be viewed as hormone replacement therapy

Found that particularly humorous

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#250

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

xyzzyz wrote: post #22
esquivalience wrote: post #4

From the source: "The high rate of magnesium deficiency now postulated [5,6,7,8] can be attributed in part to a steady decline in general magnesium content in cultivated fruits and vegetables, a reflection of the observed depletion of magnesium in soil over the past 100 years [11,12,13]. A report to Congress was already sounding the alarm as far back as the 1930s, pointing out the paucity of magnesium, and other mine…

Can it be solved by simply adding more magnesium to the fertilizer?

Fertilizer is actually the problem. The soil is losing magnesium because we don't practice crop rotation anymore, so we load up the soil with fertilizer, 90% of which runs off into our watersheds, wreaking havoc.

It can be solved by using less efficient / more complex farming practices which aren't amenable to mass production of monocultures. But that makes a lot less money, so it will never happen.

A different solution would be to pass legislation specifically to protect the nutritional value of our food. But that would just prompt the ag sector to pump the soil full of so much crap to meet the law's requirements that it'll speed up the collapse of ecological systems (in addition to possibly poisoning us).

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