Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status • Hacker News Board

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#231

Post by kossTKR » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

interlocutor wrote: post #224

Magnesium solved two problems for me: stiff muscles and insomnia. Scientific information about how magnesium works is hard to come by. Here's what I have been able to gather from various sources: The cells in your body need calcium to go into "on state". To go into "off state" magnesium has to go in and displace calcium. When your body is low on magnesium your muscles can't go into "off state" and your muscles become…

How much magnesium are we talking about here?

I actually have magnesium in my supplement drawer : "Magnesium Carbonate from natural sources" - it says take 2 grams, max 4 grams and let it "sit in cold water for 10 minutes, or warmer water for 10 seconds" before drinking.

Is that the range you are taking and is the l-threonate form much better, ie. is carbonate useless?

Interested in trying this out later this night..

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#232

Post by nate_meurer » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

rpmisms wrote: post #194

nate_meurer wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've imposed some dietary restrictions on my kids, but they're mostly glycemic in nature. - No sugary drinks; absolutely no soda pop, ever, and very little fruit juice, which is really no better than pop. - No sugary breakfasts. Breakfast cereal is fucking poison, especially the sweetened varieties. - No kids-menu food. When we eat out, they've always ordered off the adult menu. No pizza, chicken nuggets, mac-n-chees…

And you are a responsible parent for doing that. I have a friend who was raised on a kids-menu diet, and the poor guy still doesn't like burgers or steak. I'm working on introducing him to the good stuff, but the damage has been done.

I know people like this too; grown up adults with crippling food aversions. Combining it with a sedentary lifestyle is a great way to cut a decade or two off a person's life, not to mention the pain and disability of diabetes.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#233

Post by pembrook » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #204

noodlenotes wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's a relationship to the obesity epidemic, especially since it's not just humans that are getting larger but also lab animals, pets, and wild animals living close to humans [1]. What if we're compelled to eat more calories when we're not getting enough nutrients in our diets? This would impact any animals consuming lower quality fruits and vegetables. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2010.628

Anecdotally, this has been my personal experience. I have gone through phases of my life where I ate a lot of junk food. I would feel constantly hungry during those phases, until I ate something nutritious, green and easily-digestible, like steamed broccoli or green peas.

This doesn’t make any scientific sense. Study after study has shown that protein and complex carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger, not vegetables.

This makes sense when you consider most green vegetables like broccoli are 90% water. A meat like chicken, after cooking is only about 60% water.

So if you eat 400g of broccoli vs 400g of chicken, the one that will make you feel more full is obviously the protein.

What’s more likely, is due to marketing we’ve associated anything that is green in color with being “real, nutritious food” and have convinced ourselves that is what makes us feel full.

It’s like people who claim they “feel better” after eating a salad. The average iceberg lettuce has near zero nutritional value and is 96%+ water.

The only way you’d feel better after eating one is if you were dehydrated.

-- *edit - people seem to be misunderstanding. I'm not saying fast food is healthy. I'm simply refuting the idea that green vegetables are the key to feeling full. If you wanted to feel satiated, green vegetables would be one of the most inefficient ways to do so--due to their 90%+ water content.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#234

Post by bumby » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #177

caymanjim wrote: post #68

I wonder what the source of the nutrition information on FDA labels is. They're not assessing every batch of produce. Is the information we're told about the vitamins and minerals in our broccoli based on crops from last year? A decade ago? A century ago? Is it possible we think we're eating twice as many nutrients as we actually are?

See https://thecounter.org/nutrition-labels-meet-recipal/ and https://consolidatedlabel.com/label-articles/how-to-get-a-nu... . The TLDR is not every food needs to be lab tested as long as they can take their ingredients and compare them against national databases (e.g. NCCDB) to estimate nutritional info. And yes, some of the data in those databases is old and perhaps overly general - it's totally reasonable to susp…

It appears the FDA breaks the label down into “mandatory” and “voluntary” categories based on the association of certain nutrients with specific diseases. From your list, vitamin K and magnesium are both voluntary and zinc isn’t included on the standardized label. I assume it’s a business decision by the manufacturer to not include them.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2012-N-1210-0875

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#235

Post by Sunspark » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #26

esquivalience wrote: post #4

From the source: "The high rate of magnesium deficiency now postulated [5,6,7,8] can be attributed in part to a steady decline in general magnesium content in cultivated fruits and vegetables, a reflection of the observed depletion of magnesium in soil over the past 100 years [11,12,13]. A report to Congress was already sounding the alarm as far back as the 1930s, pointing out the paucity of magnesium, and other mine…

Interesting. I recently started using Magnesium Glycinate as a supplement and I feel it truly changed my life, not exaggerating. I’ve suffered from chronic general anxiety for most of my teens and adult life. Magnesium has completely cleared this up, things I thought were just part of my personality (being anxious and other associated things) were actually due to a chronic magnesium deficiency. I just have to make su…

Interesting, I am specifically taking magnesium to stop muscle twitches. In your case it is the opposite.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#236

Post by shakabrah » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #233

nerdponx wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, this has been my personal experience. I have gone through phases of my life where I ate a lot of junk food. I would feel constantly hungry during those phases, until I ate something nutritious, green and easily-digestible, like steamed broccoli or green peas.

This doesn’t make any scientific sense. Study after study has shown that protein and complex carbs are what reduces feelings of hunger, not vegetables. This makes sense when you consider most green vegetables like broccoli are 90% water. A meat like chicken, after cooking is only about 60% water. So if you eat 400g of broccoli vs 400g of chicken, the one that will make you feel more full is obviously the protein. Wha…

Or…you know…vegetables have fiber and meat doesn’t?

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#237

Post by kayodelycaon » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

fasteo wrote: post #93

wincy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I recently started using Magnesium Glycinate as a supplement and I feel it truly changed my life, not exaggerating. I’ve suffered from chronic general anxiety for most of my teens and adult life. Magnesium has completely cleared this up, things I thought were just part of my personality (being anxious and other associated things) were actually due to a chronic magnesium deficiency. I just have to make su…

You may want to add theanine to the mix in a 2:1 mag:theanine ratio. It will improve you anxiety even further

Just a warning to anyone on anti-seizure or mood stabilizing meds. Theanine can seriously fuck you up because it alters glutamate channels that your medication may also be altering.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#238

Post by stuaxo » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

alaffere wrote: post #220

noodlenotes wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's a relationship to the obesity epidemic, especially since it's not just humans that are getting larger but also lab animals, pets, and wild animals living close to humans [1]. What if we're compelled to eat more calories when we're not getting enough nutrients in our diets? This would impact any animals consuming lower quality fruits and vegetables. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2010.628

> What if we're compelled to eat more calories when we're not getting enough nutrients in our diets? From what is starting to be known about hunger drives from animal studies [1] this is essentially correct. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221457451...

Completely unscientific - but when you see programs on TV about people that eat a lot, the food tends to be highly processed and low in nutrients, I've been wondering the same thing.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#239

Post by bink » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

patall wrote: post #191

sabco wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone taking magnesium supplements that have found it helpful, did you ever get a blood test to look at your magnesium levels and did they say you were deficient based on the reference ranges?

Unfortunately, that is what lots of people do not do. Noticed it recently with Vitamin D where everyone was like: "There is much deficiency, there are no down sites, let's all take it." And I was like: "Sure, there are probably benefits, but for people with actual deficiency. There is a test for that, why don't you do that?" But at that point, it was too late because you can't test for a deficiency once you supplemen…

Ironically, supplementing vitamin D can cause a magnesium deficiency.

Re: Challenges in the diagnosis of magnesium status

#240

Post by rtkwe » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

988747 wrote: post #152

rtkwe wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> humans ate ruminant animals who’s herds they followed around, and almost nothing else. This is the incorrect part. Meat was never the sole part of human or any human ancestors diet, for starters we don't have the teeth for it. The rest of the diet may have been lower carb than what we eat now but it was not meat only.

Some scientists seem to disagree [1] They theory is basically that for the first few millions years of evolution we were eating mostly meat, and switched to more plant-based diet when we ran out of big animals to hunt, which was quite recently. [1] https://www.livescience.com/humans-were-super-predators.html

It's one of those things we'll probably never have a conclusive answer to and even if we do it'll depend on when you decide to look at the diet to decide what we are 'evolved' to handle. At some times we may have been more meat heavy and others more grain/berry/etc heavy.