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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#131

Post by joshschreuder »

iamcreasy wrote: post #85
1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

I left my laptop, that ran Windows 7, running for a couple of hours, and came back to see a notification that says welcome to Windows 10.

Not sure how that’s relevant to someone who can’t upgrade because of unsupported hardware. You can’t get autoupgraded to an OS your hardware doesn’t support. And most such people would happily continue using Windows 10 without caring (or knowing, most likely)

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#132

Post by dunnevens »

chasil wrote: post #124
dunnevens wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's. They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machin…

Are you sure that they are blocked entirely? A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up. Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...

I guess that's part of the problem. No one outside of Microsoft is sure. The uncertainty has completely overshadowed the launch. One minute, they're talking about "soft floors", and the next they're saying it will refuse to install.

Makes me wonder if a power struggle is going on. You'd think they would have a coherent message put together before launch. Recommended system requirements + minimum system requirements, and the justifications for both. That's what's expected from any major software launch.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#133

Post by makecheck »

Whenever some “reason” is given to make a major foundational break from X to Y, it almost certainly does not apply to 90% of the things in the bundle. Various apps, system frameworks, etc. do not need to be held to the same minimums for hardware; they just are.

We need to push for more modularity in the systems that serve as a foundation. Or, at least push for open-source or flexibility in the things that are not strictly foundational (and theoretically much more portable), such as bundled apps.

Suppose for example there is a nice improvement to some bundled app in the next OS; in all likelihood, that change could be back-ported to several older versions and be usable on almost any hardware. It won’t be, because it is bundled to something that wants to break everything.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#135

Post by GekkePrutser »

userbinator wrote: post #103
GekkePrutser wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who wants to be stuck on an older OS? It's still a big reason to upgrade before it would have been technically necessary.

Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on t…

Ok true, but this is hacker news of course. I would expect most people here to be exactly that sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" :)

And of course, the question is how hard is MS going to push Windows 11. They pushed the upgrade from W7 to W10 pretty hard towards end users.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#136

Post by otterley »

agumonkey wrote: post #77
least wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn’t work if the person’s computer doesn’t support Windows 11, though, which is the entire argument the blog post is making. That because windows 11 won’t work people will just throw away their computers and create more electronic waste.

"computer locked, you need to buy a new one to keep enjoying our stuff"

Microsoft isn’t going to do that.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#137

Post by mdoms »

benbristow wrote: post #24
1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again. I would expect Microsoft start pushing Windows 11 automatically through Windows Update for anyone on Windows 10, or at least start pushing heavily through popups/notifications to start the update like they did with Windows 10.

So your issue is that MS will force the upgrade onto machines they have explicitly said can't be upgraded? Is that really your concern?

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#138

Post by jorams »

frozenport wrote: post #11

This article doesn't explain why it will create the waste? What changed in the spec, is it enforced?

> This article doesn't explain why it will create the waste?

I was similarly confused by the article's lack of actual information. As it stands it tells me there are arbitrary CPU specs and a bunch of common hardware meets those requirements. But then apparently the situation is terrible, people will need to buy new hardware and the majority of consumer hardware is deprecated.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#139

Post by dosenbrot »

> We should be extending the lives of existing machines as much as possible right now, encouraging people to purchase new computers right now is irresponsible. Not just now ..., our entire economy is based on shoving perfectly fine hardware into the trash. Microsoft is just a small part in this game. Also everyone talks about "eco friendly" and at the same time things like that happen: "you want the new operating system - buy complete new hardware - its just slightly better then the old one".

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#140

Post by zeusk »

marcodiego wrote: post #110
eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

Stopping trash talking about Linux was the embrace phase. WSL was the extend phase.

Not sure how not supporting old devices is extinguish for Linux but okay.

I work at MS so I have some background, but even I was vocally opposed to this.

The real pushback for hardware floor came from IHVs and PMs. IHVs don't want to support your old hardware beyond 2-5 years thanks to what they're seeing in phone market. We've had multiple user impacting bugs that graphic vendors I won't name would not fix because that version of chip is NLA. I'm still unsure why PMs pushed for this, but it was something about mix of consistency, security and performance - whatever that meant.

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