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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#81

Post by vetinari »

benbristow wrote: post #45
wmf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about computers that (officially) cannot run Windows 11. Obviously they won't be auto-upgraded.

I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. Or they could perhaps find a way to build a piece of software that will enable it automatically...

> I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor.

They've added restrictions since: 8th gen Intel Core or 2nd gen AMD Zen required.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#82

Post by krylon »

btdmaster wrote: post #5

I wonder how many will be convinced to install Linux, especially given the increasing move for Operating Systems as a browser shim.

I remember reading some blog posts from people switching to Linux because they disliked Windows 10 for various reasons (mostly privacy concerns and forced updates), but I think those were fairly tech savvy already.

Most people will just use whatever Microsoft releases, either because it comes preinstalled on their PC, because it's what they know, or because they need Windows because of some application or piece of hardware.

The year of Linux on the desktop will have to wait for a while, I'm afraid.

(On my desktop it's been year-of-the-Linux-desktop for the past 20 years, fortunately.)

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#83

Post by GekkePrutser »

leucineleprec0n wrote: post #43

The hype train is already starting RE: "people will switch to Linux, etc etc". MS for once abandons the backwards compatibility obsession, albeit in an understandable but not user-facing, palatable way as with a unified UI - and is dammed to Techlord Mordor. Poor strategy aside, MS just can't win with everyone, the divide is particularly stark for their user base. IMO though they should never have been remotely as le…

But their backwards compabitility obsession is not seen as a drawback by everyone. In fact I personally think Apple is taking things too far.

The people that would complain about the backwards compatibility are probably not the same people that are complaining now. Those people would already be using their fancy UWP Metro apps :)

By the way they are dropping the live tiles in Windows 11! So tileOS would be a misnomer. I'm personally very happy about that, I always spent a while cleaning up the start menu of all that crap after every install. I never liked the idea of them but admittedly I'm a pretty traditional user (and a power user at that).

One thing I do really like in Windows 11 is the new pane system. I haven't yet tried it but it sounds like an interesting compromise between a traditional and a tiling window system. And the good thing about it is that it doesn't have to break any backwards compatibility (after all, neither do tiling WMs on Linux)

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#84

Post by dunnevens »

eric__cartman wrote: post #60
ehsankia wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's.

They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machines didn't get the Android compatibility layer or if certain desktop animations were disabled, but seems odd to just block them entirely.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#85

Post by iamcreasy »

1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

I left my laptop, that ran Windows 7, running for a couple of hours, and came back to see a notification that says welcome to Windows 10.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#86

Post by Goz3rr »

sedatk wrote: post #9

I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.

>the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations

I've seen people theorize that it's because of the availability of UMIP instructions

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#87

Post by GekkePrutser »

hakfoo wrote: post #73
azalemeth wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As ever with security questions, the answer to that depends a lot on your threat model. Microsoft say that the main features of TPMs are that they [1]: > Generate, store, and limit the use of cryptographic keys. > Use TPM technology for platform device authentication by using the TPM’s unique RSA key, which is burned into itself. > Help ensure platform integrity by taking and storing security measurements. One can, i…

I'm worried that pushing whole-disc encryption at people who aren't aware of the consequences is a huge risk. I suspect for most consumer and small-business users, the risk of "a power surge blew out my motherboard and TPM, but I can take the surviving SSD and plunk it in a new PC and salvage my data" is a much more important use case than "someone might steal my PC and get at my valuable unencrypted data." I know we…

Yes this. I've scraped my SSD for data after it blew up :)

The data wasn't that valuable otherwise I'd have had it backed up. The problem is it's my game PC. I don't want to constantly backup and sync all my game files as I can easily re-download them anyway and they take a ton of space. The savegames I do want backed up ideally but they're all over the filesystem. So, I recovered some that way. It was educational too, trying to scrape stuff off a broken NTFS image.

But I certainly don't need or want my desktop PC encrypted. I only use my Windows box for gaming and I don't want to waste performance on it.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#88

Post by ArkanExplorer »

Its grimly humorous that we need to upgrade hardware security because of ransomware - enabled by cryptocurrency.

But we can't do that - we have widespread shortages of new chip components because so much capacity is being dedicated to cryptomining!

Instead of tying ourselves in knots, why not just regulate and ban the base source of the problem (crypto exchange for fiat) instead?

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#89

Post by vetinari »

alkonaut wrote: post #63

> A modest Intel Skylake laptop from 2016 meets all the core requirements. It is 64 bit, supports UEFI, and even contains a hardware TPM 2.0 module on board. Is anyone suggesting Win11 won’t run on a 2016 Skylake? That Microsoft says it’s not supported doesn’t necessarily mean that. It would be extremely surprising if windows effectively checked the cpuid and arbitrarilily rejected a processor with the necessary feat…

> Is anyone suggesting Win11 won’t run on a 2016 Skylake?

Yes, Microsoft is suggesting exactly that: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min...

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#90

Post by ashdev »

Todd wrote: post #57

Microsoft is late to the party here. This has been core to Apple's business model for years. Here's an example of OS support for the MacBook Air: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Air#Supported_macOS_re... The arbitrary cadence of abandonment is amazingly consistent and has no basis in hardware capabilities.

That's true, but if you compare the resale value of PCs and MacBooks, you'll find that MacBooks(even with outdated OS) have higher resale value. Therefore, this is a bit of a tricky situtation for PCs since they can't be sold for much.
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