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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#341

Post by donkarma »

dafelst wrote: post #118
beebeepka wrote: post #38

As if Electron is the actual problem hay. I am forced to have this junk running on my work PC at all times. As far as I know, everyone hates it. I only know a couple of people who like it and I definitely don't value their input since we disagree on pretty much everything I know Discord is supposed to be for gamers but I've only used it for work and it's hands down the best thing out there

It seems to me that Electron is a scapegoat here - VS Code is built on Electron and is super snappy and responsive for me, even on large projects. This means two things: 1. Even complex Electron apps can be performant and responsive 2. Microsoft as a company has people that know how to make this happen. The reality is (speaking as a former MSFT employee) that the Teams and VSCode orgs are so far separated that they m…

Visual Studio Code is easily one of the most unresponsive IDEs I have used in a long time. If I edit a big file it just completely seizes up while trying to process it again, and everything feels delayed.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#342

Post by Zababa »

richardstephens wrote: post #50
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

I see where you're coming from, but Microsoft already builds an entire office sweet as native apps across 4 of the 5 platforms you enumerated.

They don't have feature parity though. For example, power query doesn't work on mac.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#343

Post by dagw »

postalrat wrote: post #305
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #45

Teams sucks. It's user interface is unintuitive and messy. I find it difficult to find the context I want. Search doesn't seem to work. It takes a long time to load. When it eventually loads, it pops itself up in front of whatever I've opened and started working on (whilst Teams is busy loading) to take all my keystrokes until I notice the keystrokes aren't showing up in the program I was already using - I've seen at…

Teams sucks. Slack sucks. Discord FTW!

I've never used Discord. What makes it that much better than Slack, and what would I win by switching?

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#344

Post by Zababa »

formerly_proven wrote: post #271
eloff wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? Be only on one platform? Not viable today. Implement 5 different apps, usually not viable. The platforms are fragmented and the user pays the costs of that in the end, one way or another. If you hide it by increasing development costs, the price of the app ( or amount of ads or premium only features) must go up to compensate and the user pays the cost as well. Edit: downvote all you like, ther…

> What's the alternative? Be only on one platform? Not viable today. Implement 5 different apps, usually not viable. Why are we pretending in this thread that there aren't any cross-platform toolkits? Using that is an entirely valid trade-off between "putting a webshit in its window" and "you have to develop 10 separate native apps".

> Why are we pretending in this thread that there aren't any cross-platform toolkits?

I'm not aware of any cross-platform toolkit that works on windows, mac, linux and the web aside from, well, a browser.

> Using that is an entirely valid trade-off between "putting a webshit in its window" and "you have to develop 10 separate native apps".

People don't want to pay the cost of native apps, they want to be able to use apps everywhere and have new features often.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#345

Post by Zababa »

olliej wrote: post #316
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

Electron fails to support even the most basic Mac behaviours, every electron app is immediately recognizable and frustrating.

Maybe mac users need to start paying for app instead of complaining about every app that doesn't use "native toolkits" or doesn't "support the most basic Mac behavior'. There's a reason that they don't, it's that mac users that care about this don't pay enough to justify a native app.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#346

Post by nullify88 »

Ristovski wrote: post #324
nullify88 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently switched to the browser based client https://teams.microsoft.com and ditched their desktop application as I grew frustrated with its extremely slow UI. The browser client is more responsive, consumes less CPU and RAM, and uBlock some of the tracking javascript. I can live with some of the missing features: No noise cancellation Audio devices are configured via windows sound settings Can only share full…

> Can only share full screens and not individual windows At least on Chrome, the Teams screen sharing option summons the Chrome screen sharing dialog, which allows you to select either the whole desktop, individual windows or specific tabs inside the browser. Maybe the limitation is from the browser you are using? (Although I would be very surprised)

You maybe right. It could be in another tab on the screen sharing dialog. I perhaps might have missed it.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#347

Post by Zababa »

makecheck wrote: post #225

Somewhere along the line, we really lost it in software. A few decades ago I paid about $1000 for a one MEGABYTE memory upgrade, and even that was needed only because a single graphics application at that time could clearly benefit from the extra RAM to do more things. Now? I have 32 GIGABYTES of RAM, and we are celebrating that a chat client has now managed to find a way to use a slightly less absurd amount of memor…

A few decades ago most software wasn't free and wasn't usable on the web.

> These companies have more than enough money to invest in writing software for different platforms using the heavily-optimized system frameworks on those platforms.

Companies don't work that way. Why put X million dollars in Teams if it won't really increase revenue?

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#348

Post by postalrat »

dagw wrote: post #343
postalrat wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teams sucks. Slack sucks. Discord FTW!

I've never used Discord. What makes it that much better than Slack, and what would I win by switching?

The killer feature for me is having a single identity and being logged in to many servers/organizations at the same time.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#349

Post by ehvatum »

prepend wrote: post #335
failwhaleshark wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Balance-sheet aggregation != perfect execution consistency. - DOS 4.0 - Microsoft Bob - Windows ME - Windows Vista - JScript - MSJVM - Zune - Eliminating all/most easter eggs https://www.infoworld.com/article/2612971/microsoft-s-13-wor... You can make many, many mistakes as a giant company, so long as they're not fatal. ;-)

Zune was good.

“Plays for sure” Oops, doesn’t play at all.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#350

Post by madhadron »

Longhanks wrote: post #230
madhadron wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also have Swing in Java which is mature, performant, and works across all our desktop stacks. Mobile UI is different enough that you need to write a different interface anyway.

In other words: outdated, ugly and barely supports modern requirements such as high dpi. Apart from Jetbrains who put in a literal buttload of engineering, there is not a single Java Swing application that is not an absolute PITA to use.

Swing generally looks like the native widgets set. And how is it outdated? It's not like GUI programming has changed much.
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