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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#221

Post by lttlrck »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #109
xyst wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

Paste without formatting is Ctrl-Shift-V, isn't it? I don't know if I've ever tried it in Teams though.

It works consistently across all MS products I use including Teams and Office365.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#222

Post by JCWasmx86 »

dafelst wrote: post #149
est wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime Electron is mentioned, VSC will be presented as counter example. The problem is VSC is the only snappy Electron app out there, Microsoft spend millions optimizing it, while most other Electron apps are crap. Native programs can be made snappy easily . That's the whole point.

But then with native you have to pay the cross platform price. Which is higher do you think? With Electron you get cross platform more or less for free and ostensibly you can make it faster later. Don't get me wrong, I love doing native work, but as someone who has to deal with cross-platform issues in native applications (well games) on the daily, I can tell you that even with massive code reuse and good interfaces,…

> But then with native you have to pay the cross platform price. Which is higher do you think?

You could for example use Qt. It is cross-platform and if you write your application well, the amount of platform-specific code will be quite small.

>With Electron you get cross platform more or less for free and ostensibly you can make it faster later.

It's not for-free. The effort/work for the developer is reduced, while the amount of work for the users' PC is increased. Sure, a lot will think, that this is a great deal, but at in my opinion, you should do it the other way round.

How often have you seen electron apps going faster? I never did. With a native toolkit, you have performance from the beginning for the same quality.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#223

Post by dajohnson89 »

carom wrote: post #127
xyst wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

My trick for paste without formatting is to throw it in the url bar and copy it back out.

if you accidentally press enter, are you ok with the browser sending that information wherever it does?

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#224

Post by kixiQu »

qlm wrote: post #73
xyst wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

Can somebody explain why "paste with formatting" is so widely the default option? I have literally never wanted to paste with formatting and neither have multiple family members who have needed help with preventing it from happening.

If you sit someone who doesn't know How Links Work in front of some text with an inline hyperlink in it, then try to get them to copy it over to another place, you end up wanting to get to this default pretty quickly. "Right click copy link address" is real unintuitive. I've never wanted the text formatting itself to come over, bold text and headings and whatnot, but since that lives in about the same conceptual space, it's a casualty of design.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#225

Post by makecheck »

Somewhere along the line, we really lost it in software.

A few decades ago I paid about $1000 for a one MEGABYTE memory upgrade, and even that was needed only because a single graphics application at that time could clearly benefit from the extra RAM to do more things.

Now? I have 32 GIGABYTES of RAM, and we are celebrating that a chat client has now managed to find a way to use a slightly less absurd amount of memory, and has graciously returned some of our massive computing resources to us? This app barely does anything!! The apps that require all that power should at least be more useful...right?

As far as I can tell, every person on the planet is using more battery power and upgrading their machines more often just to make up for the laziness of software companies. In exchange for the ability of software teams to “easily” write one obnoxious cross-platform beast, we all get to burn through our CPUs and memory. These companies have more than enough money to invest in writing software for different platforms using the heavily-optimized system frameworks on those platforms.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#226

Post by AtNightWeCode »

chx wrote: post #216
AtNightWeCode wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't even read stuff from other tenants if you are in a video call. Teams came for free at a lot companies I worked with and all of them have moved back to Slack and many of them are also paying for it.

My favorite about video calls is at one of my organizations I am access denied to recordings even when I participated in it. I can't attach images either. Someone built these features. Why are you building a feature on who can attach images?? The entire mindset is completely wrong and comes from an overcontrolling enterprise mindset completely incompatible with what we expect from a chat tool. Oh and every time I log…

Good it asks though. So many stupid apps like Instagram and so on that assumes that the logged on user owns the device. In Europe it is very common that you are provided with a device from your work place that you also use in private. I did a password reset on Instagram with such a device. Totally unexceptable.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#227

Post by CharlesW »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #150

Not sure what everyone issues are. I use Teams (in the browser) on Linux and it works fine under both X11 and Wayland (with some work). A bit less polished than Slack but it also has a lot more features. The worse thing about the desktop/Electron version is that they are really bad about keeping the electron version updated so the browser version will support screen sharing on Wayland while the desktop app doesn't.

In my experience, most people in engineering orgs default to hating Teams far more than it deserves. and loving Slack far more than it deserves. This has roots in Microsoft's history as computing Bad Guy and Slack's pre-Salesforce history as Scrappy Indie.

Teams is more complex than Slack but also does more, but it's also not a complete superset of Slack, so unplanned/unguided transitions from Slack to Teams tend not to go well. Like any sort of knowledge management change, it can go well with empathy, planning, and care.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#228

Post by mattferderer »

sivakon wrote: post #210

The fact that they market Xamarin/MAUI as cross platform and Blazer for web, and not use any of their tech to build a cross platform native/web app is laughable.

TypeScript is also there thing. They've been pushing React as well in SharePoint & other areas for quite a few years.

Blazor is very new & was considered experimental until recently. It's still fairly bleeding edge.

Microsoft started Teams in 2016 & bought Xamarin in 2016.

JavaScript developers are also more plentiful than Xamarin I assume.

They should choose the best tools for the job, even if it's not there own.

- Edit - It looks like WebView2 is a Microsoft thing based on their Chromium browser version. Super common for Microsoft to make multiple competing products that do similar things.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#229

Post by sivakon »

mattferderer wrote: post #228
sivakon wrote: post #210

The fact that they market Xamarin/MAUI as cross platform and Blazer for web, and not use any of their tech to build a cross platform native/web app is laughable.

TypeScript is also there thing. They've been pushing React as well in SharePoint & other areas for quite a few years. Blazor is very new & was considered experimental until recently. It's still fairly bleeding edge. Microsoft started Teams in 2016 & bought Xamarin in 2016. JavaScript developers are also more plentiful than Xamarin I assume. They should choose the best tools for the job, even if it's not there own. -…

Word/Excel run natively on Windows and MacOS. Also have a web client for them. How does that justify using web technologies for cross platform development?

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#230

Post by Longhanks »

madhadron wrote: post #142
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

We also have Swing in Java which is mature, performant, and works across all our desktop stacks. Mobile UI is different enough that you need to write a different interface anyway.

In other words: outdated, ugly and barely supports modern requirements such as high dpi. Apart from Jetbrains who put in a literal buttload of engineering, there is not a single Java Swing application that is not an absolute PITA to use.
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